[Aveosmth]

Here are their rebuttals. These are always fun to read!!

Murphy's Rebuttal:

How does one define greatness? Websters Dictionary states that
greatest is defined as ** remarkable in magnitude, degree, or
effectiveness. Effective, for one to be great one must be effective in
all areas. Bart Starr came to a team that in 1958 went 1-10-1. He sat
as
a back up watching a team going over the brink. In 1959 Bart starr led
his team on a four game streak that would put the Packers in contention
for the championship. It was only the second winning season the Packers
had had in the past 11 years. Tragicly the Packers lost to the Eagles
13-17. It was the last playoff game that Starr would ever lose.
Bart Starrs effectivenes began to blossom in 61', the Packers would go
onto win the League Championship. Then Starr pushed the Packers to the
League Championship again the next year. After a two year skid the
Packers led by Starr, would go on a streak by which all others would be
compared, winning the League Championship twice in a row, and then its
reconfigured son the Super Bowl twice as well. Bart Star being named
its
first MVP both years.
There are many statistics on which to judge a Qb. Interceptions,
attempts, touchdowns, all come into play. My esteemed blogger in a
meeting with Bill Walsh states " ... (Qb) had to be able to place the
ball EXACTLY where it needed to be. Otherwise, the receivers would get
blasted..(this)is one of the biggest factors in the 49ers having so
many
“yards after the catch”. He went on to say "that no quarterback had the
ability to place the ball as accurately and consistently as Joe Montana
did." My congratulations to Joe Montana getting the ball to the
reciever. He may have helped the runner get more yards, but the pass
alone is all he gets credit for.
In 1974, while previewing the Miami Dolphins-Minnesota Vikings Super
Bowl, football analyst Bud Goode revealed that yards per throw, that is
just plain yards gained passing divided by the number of throws was pro
football's premier statistic, the one that correlated best with
winning.
Goode has been quoted that he wanted the inscription on his headstone
to
read "Here lies Bud Goode: He told the world about yards per throw."
The
football world is still absorbing what great NFL coaches have always
instinctively known In over 40 years from Johnny Unitas' sudden-death
victory over the New York Giants to the Rams victory over the Titans,
only one team Bill Parcells' 1997 New England Patriots, has played for
the NFL championship while failing to average more yards per throw on
offense than it gave up on defense. Over the last two decades the team
that averaged the highest number of yards per throw in a game has won
more than 80 percent of the time. The Point to this you might ask?
Starrs yards per pass (7.85) Montana (7.52), once again Bart Star
defines greatness with effectiveness and magnitude..
The totals put up in these games and in these seasons may not be overly
impressive in this day in age. However, these games late in the season
weren't played in domes, or in the land of warm breezes and palm trees.
These games being played up north in the heartland of America defining
the spirit of football as we know it today. In 1961 and again in 1962,
the Packers faced the New York Giants in the Leauge Championship game.
The most prominent Giant was the balding veteran quarterback Y.A.
Tittle, who was enjoying the first two years of an amazing three-season
run in which he would throw 86 touchdown passes in 41 games. But Green
Bay might as well have been in Alaska on New Year's Eve in 1961, and
then the following year on Dec. 30 a second ice age was moving into New
York. Starr was 19 of 38 for 249 yards, nearly 6.5 yards per pass,
while
Tittle was able to complete just 24 of 61 passes for 262 yards, just a
little over five yards a throw. Tittle failed to throw a touchdown pass
in either game and was intercepted five times; Starr had three
touchdown
passes with no interceptions. The Packers won both games by a combined
score of 53-7.
In what is possibly the greatest game ever played " The Ice Bowl" Don
"Dandy" Meredith was frozen cold as he gained only 59 yards on 25
passes. While Starr threw 24 times for 191 yards then won the game on
grit alone, thrusting himself into the endzone to win the game on a Qb
keeper. All of this as the wind and weather pushed the mercury down to
at times 45 below. Even Johnny Unitas arguably the the greatest Qb ever
could not top Bart Starr. The Colts were just 5 of 15 against Starrs'
Packers.
Bart Starr thats all there is. There are no fancy nicknames, no flash,
and no bling. There is a complete domination of the eras best. The
first
ever superbowl wins with MVP's to boot, and 4 more of its daddy the NFL
Championship game.All in all double the championships put in by
Montanas' 49ers. Bart Starr one of the last true field generals,
calling
plays in the huddle, playing more against the forces of nature than the
forces of man. Remarkably effective don't you think, and isn't that how
we define the greatest?

I'm right your wrong and that's
Murphys' Law

Dave's Rebuttal:


My opponent in this Point/Counterpoint contest said in his Point, "Bart Starr : Best Quarterback ever. I'm right your wrong and that's Murphys' Law." Well, my friend, I say this to you. Murphy’s Law certainly doesn’t apply here because there is no way that Bart Starr is the Greatest Quarterback of All-Time. Instead of invoking Murphy’s Law, perhaps a Darwin Award is more appropriate because my opponent has definitely missed “The Point”.

Based on my opponents “facts and facts alone”, let’s compare Bart Starr and Joe Montana. He said, “His (Starr) career interception percentage is the lowest of any passer in the decade.” That’s great and all, but we’re not talking about the best QB of a decade. We’re talking All-Time here. Like I said, my opponent missed “The Point.”

It gets worse, however. Bart Starr’s career interception percentage might have been acceptable to my opponent. Starr had 138 interceptions over his career, one less than Montana’s 139. What’s missing here is the “facts and facts alone” that Montana had 5,391 pass attempts, while Starr only had 3,149. That’s a difference of 2,242 attempts. Speaking in terms of percentages, Bart Starr’s interception percentage was 0.043823, while Montana’s was 0.025784. I figure that if we’re going to claim a quarterback the greatest, you can’t compare him to just the qb’s in one decade…you gotta compare him to all that ever played. Again, my opponent missed “The Point”. Granted, Bart Starr did have a higher yards-per-pass mark than Joe Montana did (7.85 – 7.52). This is, however, a stat that is hardly a deal breaker in determining who the Greatest QB of All-Time is. It seems that my opponent is really pinning a lot of hopes on this stat as this is the ONLY stat he uses in comparing Bart Starr to multiple quarterbacks. The only other time he compares Starr to another QB is when he compares his meager stats to those of Johnny Unitas.



My opponent then goes on to talk about QB ratings, yet he only compares Starr with Unitas. He boasts how Starr’s QB rating is higher than Unitas’ (80.5/ 78.2 respectively). That’s fantastic, but he fails to mention that Joe Montana’s QB rating is the 3rd highest of All-Time. Montana’s QB rating of 92.3 blows Starr’s rating of 80.5 out of the water. I hate to sound like a broken record, but he once again has missed “The Point.”

Now we move onto the biggest blunder of all. Super Bowl. My opponent has missed “The Point” so bad on this one that I’m positive that he wouldn’t hit water if he fell out of a boat. Again, comparing Starr only to Unitas, my opponent states how Starr played in the first two super bowls, winning both. That’s quite an achievement. But it’s nothing compared to the fact that Montana played in four Super Bowls, winning all four. Well, not to be outdone, Starr completed a combined 29 of 48 passes (60%) for 290 yards, and he only threw 1 interception. Unfortunately for my opponent, Montana completed a combined 83 of 122 passes (68%) for a Super Bowl record 1, 142 yards. And in all 4 games and 122 pass attempts, he threw ZERO interceptions. Montana passed for more yards (357) in Super Bowl XXIII alone, more than the total combined yards that Starr threw for in Super Bowls I and II. Yes, Starr was named Super Bowl MVP twice, but again, Montana’s got him beat, being the only NFL player to win that honor 3 times.


I don’t want to take anything away from Bart Starr. He was a pretty good quarterback, but to say that he’s the Greatest of All Time is way off the mark. No quarterback affected the game of football more than Joe Montana. No quarterback was as successful as Montana. The bottom line is this. If we all were given the opportunity to build a team from scratch, and the choice at QB was between Bart Starr and Joe Montana, I would be willing to be any amount of money that a majority of people would take Joe. It’s a no-brainer. Like my opponent said, the facts and facts alone don’t lie. Montana is the Greatest Quarterback of All-Time….and that's MY POINT!!