Ishkur-Mark C. Quarterfinal Thread - Page 4

Rusty27 · November 22nd, 2005, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BtownJay

And for the record, I agree on this with you Mark.

Jay,putting aside who really is better in your mind,do you really think Marks initial article makes a better case than Ishkur's?

BtownJay · November 22nd, 2005, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty17

Jay,putting aside who really is better in your mind,do you really think Marks initial article makes a better case than Ishkur's?

Honestly I can't tell... thats what I was saying yesterday... i can't judge these things because of my own opinions. I agree with Mark's pick, but Ish's articles could be better. Its hard to explain, but I read what Mark wrote and i think "exactly, thats why i think Peter is better too". But Ish could have a better arguement that I am too blind to see.

If it's a topic where i really don't have an opinion, then I can judge the actual arguements.

Gunnerman · November 22nd, 2005, 08:31 AM

Wow, great articles and rebuttals in this one. One fatal flaw with Mark's argument I can pick out. He calls Jagr a pussy. Jagr likes pussy but I don't know if he is one. I know this because he did frequent a few of the classier *ahem* Gentlemen's Clubs during his time in Pittsburgh. Not, that I, ah, have ever been to that sort of place.......

NICKinDALLAS · November 22nd, 2005, 08:33 AM

[quote=BtownJay] I say "he has been beating people off with the puck"... and some of you 5 year olds here get all giddy and think homo thoughts. QUOTE]

You're giddy.
Ha. Who's 5 now?? Guess I told you. In your face.

ssigman · November 22nd, 2005, 08:45 AM

is there any forward in the league who's really good as a defensive forward but doesn't score much?? if so, he's the opposite of jagr and according to mark, he's not doing his job as an offensive threat

BtownJay · November 22nd, 2005, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssigman

is there any forward in the league who's really good as a defensive forward but doesn't score much?? if so, he's the opposite of jagr and according to mark, he's not doing his job as an offensive threat

Horseshit.

The question was who is the best player. So let me get this straight... you would honestly rather have Jagr on your team than Peter Forsberg? Forsberg will help you on both ends of the ice... Jagr on just one end.

This season... Forsberg, 36 points in 19 games.
Jagr, 35 points in 23 games. Who's better offensively this year?

Also, Forsberg is great on defense, where as Jagr is not sure what the word means.

Ishkur · November 22nd, 2005, 12:27 PM

Forsberg is only good when he has someone to pass to. Put him on a shitty team, and watch his stats dry up. He has 6 goals.

Jagr has 19. He is a pure goal scorer, and he has done it on some pretty awful teams. And he already is destined for the Hall of Fame.

In addition, Jagr has more heart. He'll play his hardest even if he's not feeling his best. I wouldn't want Forsberg on my team, because he's unrealiable. I can't know what he's thinking, whether he'll just decide to skip the year and go bugger off back to Ornskoldsvik.....or stretch a menial injury past half the season. The fact that he's been in the league for 10 years and has barely played 600 games shows his heart. He quits too much, and he plays at his own leisure.....ie: when he feels like it. Why would you want such an unreliable uncertainty on your team?

And he dives too much. I don't think he is really great on defence insomuch as, all those years on Colorado, they had a one-two line second to none, forcing most opposing teams to concentrate on one or the other, thus not focusing too much on him, which made him appear better. In other words, his stacked team helped protect his stats. It also helped that he had the greatest goalie in the history of the game behind him too. EVERYONE on the team had a plus-ranking for those years. hell, if anything, he should have a +/- that's astronomically better compared to Jagr. Perhaps if he actually played more.

ssigman · November 22nd, 2005, 12:37 PM

jay, your just mad cause i made a valid point and you can't stand the fact whoever is saying jagr is better, is right

Gunnerman · November 22nd, 2005, 01:03 PM

Jagr hands down IMO. Although I do cut Forsberg some slack because didn't he lose his spleen after a playoff game once?

BtownJay · November 22nd, 2005, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssigman

jay, your just mad cause i made a valid point and you can't stand the fact whoever is saying jagr is better, is right

Valid point? Show me where Mark ever said "he's not doing his job as an offensive threat" (about Jagr). You can't because he did say it... so that makes your point not valid, right?

Hey we all have our opinions... Mark and I think Forsberg is a better player, and you guys think Jagr is better. None of us are right or wrong.

BtownJay · November 22nd, 2005, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ishkur

And he dives too much. I don't think he is really great on defence insomuch as, all those years on Colorado, they had a one-two line second to none, forcing most opposing teams to concentrate on one or the other, thus not focusing too much on him, which made him appear better. In other words, his stacked team helped protect his stats.

It just became glaringly obvious that you have not seem him play much, if at all. You are basing your whole arguement around stats and numbers. Either that or you are acting blind to help your arguement. This paragraph is a joke.

mark_chalifoux · November 22nd, 2005, 01:22 PM

Ishkur did a good job with his article, but there are too many double standards floating around here. First, how did you prove forsberg is a flopper?!?!?! How can anyone have a problem with me calling Jagr a pussy when Ishkur is calling Forsberg a flopper? You can't prove EITHER of these. You can call Forsberg a diver all you want, but I'll keep responding with "Jagr is a pussy."

Jagr has more heart?! Forsberg has played through pain plenty of times and shouldnt have even come back for the playoffs a few years ago but he did, and he still scored something like 39 points and didnt miss a beat. Bullshit, if he did he would actually not shy away from throwing his body around, and Forsberg doesnt. Hits, blocked shots, steals, dump-ins, etc you are right that Forsberg isnt in contention for tops in the league, but he is better than Jagr in almost EVERY one of those. And he scores at the same rate as Jagr. You can't fault Forsberg for the injuries he's faced, it's not like he sits out with a head cold, the guy has gone through some serious crap, yet he still produces at a higher level than Jagr offensively and is a MUCH better defensive player. Jagr is a better goal scorer, fine, but that doesnt mean he's a better offensive weapon. And how easy is it to just say "the guy with the best stats wins"... that has to be the worst part of pcp ever.

And why do you act like Jagr plays with a bunch of freaking stiffs? Those NY teams were VERY talented, just because they didnt live up to it means he scored a lot of goals on awful teams.

All in all though, Iskur you did do a good job with Jagr.

Ishkur · November 22nd, 2005, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BtownJay

It just became glaringly obvious that you have not seem him play much, if at all. You are basing your whole arguement around stats and numbers. Either that or you are acting blind to help your arguement. This paragraph is a joke.

I'm from fucking Vancouver, nutsack. You think I don't pay attention to my own team's hated division rivals? Especially when the supposed "best non-north american player ever" does crap like THIS!!!! <-- video clip

Yeah, there's a bastion of excellence right there. Cheapshot pussy. Want some more visual aids?

November 22nd, 2005, 08:31 AM	#48
Gunnerman Join Date: 04-01-2004 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 5,519	Wow, great articles and rebuttals in this one. One fatal flaw with Mark's argument I can pick out. He calls Jagr a pussy. Jagr likes pussy but I don't know if he is one. I know this because he did frequent a few of the classier ahem Gentlemen's Clubs during his time in Pittsburgh. Not, that I, ah, have ever been to that sort of place.......

November 22nd, 2005, 08:33 AM	#49
NICKinDALLAS Join Date: 11-24-2004 Location: Um, really? Posts: 2,370	[quote=BtownJay] I say "he has been beating people off with the puck"... and some of you 5 year olds here get all giddy and think homo thoughts. QUOTE] You're giddy. Ha. Who's 5 now?? Guess I told you. In your face.

November 22nd, 2005, 08:45 AM	#50
ssigman Join Date: 03-15-2004 Posts: 27,221	is there any forward in the league who's really good as a defensive forward but doesn't score much?? if so, he's the opposite of jagr and according to mark, he's not doing his job as an offensive threat

November 22nd, 2005, 12:27 PM	#52
Ishkur Join Date: 12-27-2003 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 438	Forsberg is only good when he has someone to pass to. Put him on a shitty team, and watch his stats dry up. He has 6 goals. Jagr has 19. He is a pure goal scorer, and he has done it on some pretty awful teams. And he already is destined for the Hall of Fame. In addition, Jagr has more heart. He'll play his hardest even if he's not feeling his best. I wouldn't want Forsberg on my team, because he's unrealiable. I can't know what he's thinking, whether he'll just decide to skip the year and go bugger off back to Ornskoldsvik.....or stretch a menial injury past half the season. The fact that he's been in the league for 10 years and has barely played 600 games shows his heart. He quits too much, and he plays at his own leisure.....ie: when he feels like it. Why would you want such an unreliable uncertainty on your team? And he dives too much. I don't think he is really great on defence insomuch as, all those years on Colorado, they had a one-two line second to none, forcing most opposing teams to concentrate on one or the other, thus not focusing too much on him, which made him appear better. In other words, his stacked team helped protect his stats. It also helped that he had the greatest goalie in the history of the game behind him too. EVERYONE on the team had a plus-ranking for those years. hell, if anything, he should have a +/- that's astronomically better compared to Jagr. Perhaps if he actually played more.

November 22nd, 2005, 12:37 PM	#53
ssigman Join Date: 03-15-2004 Posts: 27,221	jay, your just mad cause i made a valid point and you can't stand the fact whoever is saying jagr is better, is right

November 22nd, 2005, 01:03 PM	#54
Gunnerman Join Date: 04-01-2004 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 5,519	Jagr hands down IMO. Although I do cut Forsberg some slack because didn't he lose his spleen after a playoff game once?

November 22nd, 2005, 01:22 PM	#57
mark_chalifoux Join Date: 07-02-2004 Posts: 305	Ishkur did a good job with his article, but there are too many double standards floating around here. First, how did you prove forsberg is a flopper?!?!?! How can anyone have a problem with me calling Jagr a pussy when Ishkur is calling Forsberg a flopper? You can't prove EITHER of these. You can call Forsberg a diver all you want, but I'll keep responding with "Jagr is a pussy." Jagr has more heart?! Forsberg has played through pain plenty of times and shouldnt have even come back for the playoffs a few years ago but he did, and he still scored something like 39 points and didnt miss a beat. Bullshit, if he did he would actually not shy away from throwing his body around, and Forsberg doesnt. Hits, blocked shots, steals, dump-ins, etc you are right that Forsberg isnt in contention for tops in the league, but he is better than Jagr in almost EVERY one of those. And he scores at the same rate as Jagr. You can't fault Forsberg for the injuries he's faced, it's not like he sits out with a head cold, the guy has gone through some serious crap, yet he still produces at a higher level than Jagr offensively and is a MUCH better defensive player. Jagr is a better goal scorer, fine, but that doesnt mean he's a better offensive weapon. And how easy is it to just say "the guy with the best stats wins"... that has to be the worst part of pcp ever. And why do you act like Jagr plays with a bunch of freaking stiffs? Those NY teams were VERY talented, just because they didnt live up to it means he scored a lot of goals on awful teams. All in all though, Iskur you did do a good job with Jagr.

November 22nd, 2005, 01:44 PM	#59
BtownJay Join Date: 07-14-2004 Location: Lehigh Valley, PA Posts: 28,016