The $20 Million Dollar Discussion - Page 3

BtownBeers · October 12th, 2007, 09:25 AM

Klicks in a perfect word all teams would want to do that but with the price of contracts its very hard to make that happen like that. Especially to pay your entire roster and be able to bring in FA's and let others walk.

I'd say nearly all contracts have a clause that conduct detrimental to the team or the league constitutes a case for recouping monies paid. These players sign these contracts knowing the big deal clauses and fine print...if they don't then they deserve whatever they get.

The falcons are not going after all of the money paid to him. I think a lot of people are disregarding that fact...they are only going after what they legally can based on the judge's ruling terms of the contract and previous similar cases.

Another thing that should be kept in mind is that the signing bonus...while paid out up front...is still part of and based on the contract...not fullfilling the contract at hand directly affects that money.

klicks · October 15th, 2007, 03:53 PM

Hey Beers - I think we are actually agreeing. Assuming that Vick's contract contained the conduct detrimental to team or league clause, and the amount the Falcons are after somehow accounts for time played prior etc. then I agree with the ruling. All I have been (trying to) saying is that if there is no such clause then he should keep all of it. Also, I fully understand the reasoning behind the big up front bonuses - but the team's reasoning for going that route is irrelevant, just like it's too damned bad if a player signs it without reading the fine print. Personally, I am sick of the shenanigans on both sides - players getting away with crap and taking the big pay without giving a hoot about the fact that they represent a team and a league and are heroes to kids (whether they should be or not doesn't matter - the fact is they are) and I'm just as sick of owners/teams who dole out the big dollars, pretend not to see half of what the players are doing and then become holier than thou when public opinion breaks against a player. Without in any way intending to defend Vick - how come he's getting nailed (as he should) but so many others have gotten away with crap? I'm also sick of teams getting it both ways regarding bonuses - on one hand, they argue it's a signing bonus and should be averaged for cap purposes only, and then they turn around and want some of it back when things don't go as planned. Maybe it's the NFL at fault for treating bonuses the way they do - when you get to it, it's really about trying to cheat the salary cap until a players F*s up and then its about trying to get spent cash back. Despite the legalize, contract clauses etc., I just disagree with the spirit of the whole thing. Having said that - let's not lose sight of the actual criminal here; for the life of me I can't understand why Vick would take the huge risk he did by being involved in and actually financing illegal activity. Guess he's just plain stupid.

BtownBeers · October 17th, 2007, 08:29 AM

I think a lot of the want to recoup this money is to leave open the possibility of cutting Vick depending on the sentence so they don't have to have that count against the cap with him no longer on the team.

JGAC · October 17th, 2007, 10:10 AM

Yea, that would suck to have it count against their cap.

JGAC · December 10th, 2007, 12:08 PM

23 months

I thought he was going to get like five years.

Rusty27 · December 10th, 2007, 02:43 PM

I thought it would be 24 months. I can admit i was wrong.

klicks · December 11th, 2007, 03:38 PM

you on record in here with that prediction Rusty? Nice call if you are.

Rusty27 · December 11th, 2007, 08:10 PM

I was just joking there. I really don't remember if or what I predicted. I know at first I thought somehow he would avoid jail time,but as things progressed I knew he would serve some time.

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October 12th, 2007, 09:25 AM	#31
BtownBeers Join Date: 08-23-2004 Location: In Mrs. Jays Pants! Posts: 21,551	Klicks in a perfect word all teams would want to do that but with the price of contracts its very hard to make that happen like that. Especially to pay your entire roster and be able to bring in FA's and let others walk. I'd say nearly all contracts have a clause that conduct detrimental to the team or the league constitutes a case for recouping monies paid. These players sign these contracts knowing the big deal clauses and fine print...if they don't then they deserve whatever they get. The falcons are not going after all of the money paid to him. I think a lot of people are disregarding that fact...they are only going after what they legally can based on the judge's ruling terms of the contract and previous similar cases. Another thing that should be kept in mind is that the signing bonus...while paid out up front...is still part of and based on the contract...not fullfilling the contract at hand directly affects that money.

October 15th, 2007, 03:53 PM	#32
klicks Join Date: 07-04-2005 Posts: 1,385	Hey Beers - I think we are actually agreeing. Assuming that Vick's contract contained the conduct detrimental to team or league clause, and the amount the Falcons are after somehow accounts for time played prior etc. then I agree with the ruling. All I have been (trying to) saying is that if there is no such clause then he should keep all of it. Also, I fully understand the reasoning behind the big up front bonuses - but the team's reasoning for going that route is irrelevant, just like it's too damned bad if a player signs it without reading the fine print. Personally, I am sick of the shenanigans on both sides - players getting away with crap and taking the big pay without giving a hoot about the fact that they represent a team and a league and are heroes to kids (whether they should be or not doesn't matter - the fact is they are) and I'm just as sick of owners/teams who dole out the big dollars, pretend not to see half of what the players are doing and then become holier than thou when public opinion breaks against a player. Without in any way intending to defend Vick - how come he's getting nailed (as he should) but so many others have gotten away with crap? I'm also sick of teams getting it both ways regarding bonuses - on one hand, they argue it's a signing bonus and should be averaged for cap purposes only, and then they turn around and want some of it back when things don't go as planned. Maybe it's the NFL at fault for treating bonuses the way they do - when you get to it, it's really about trying to cheat the salary cap until a players F*s up and then its about trying to get spent cash back. Despite the legalize, contract clauses etc., I just disagree with the spirit of the whole thing. Having said that - let's not lose sight of the actual criminal here; for the life of me I can't understand why Vick would take the huge risk he did by being involved in and actually financing illegal activity. Guess he's just plain stupid.

October 17th, 2007, 08:29 AM	#33
BtownBeers Join Date: 08-23-2004 Location: In Mrs. Jays Pants! Posts: 21,551	I think a lot of the want to recoup this money is to leave open the possibility of cutting Vick depending on the sentence so they don't have to have that count against the cap with him no longer on the team.

October 17th, 2007, 10:10 AM	#34
JGAC Join Date: 05-09-2003 Location: North End, Boston Posts: 6,079	Yea, that would suck to have it count against their cap.

December 10th, 2007, 12:08 PM	#35
JGAC Join Date: 05-09-2003 Location: North End, Boston Posts: 6,079	23 months I thought he was going to get like five years.

December 10th, 2007, 02:43 PM	#36
Rusty27 Join Date: 07-15-2004 Location: Knoxville,Tenn. Posts: 27,729	I thought it would be 24 months. I can admit i was wrong.

December 11th, 2007, 03:38 PM	#37
klicks Join Date: 07-04-2005 Posts: 1,385	you on record in here with that prediction Rusty? Nice call if you are.

December 11th, 2007, 08:10 PM	#38
Rusty27 Join Date: 07-15-2004 Location: Knoxville,Tenn. Posts: 27,729	I was just joking there. I really don't remember if or what I predicted. I know at first I thought somehow he would avoid jail time,but as things progressed I knew he would serve some time.

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