Quarterfinal Match/Mark C. vs. BtownJay

[Aveosmth]

The topic that will be debated is: What team will win this year's World Series, and why. The debaters for this match will be Mark Chalifoux & BtownJay.

Mark picked: The Chicago White Sox

Btown picked: The Florida Marlins

The judges for this bout will be yours truly, KP, and Point Man.

This will be a battle between two writers who will leave it all in the Point/Counterpoint ring. There was a little bit of smack talk before the match, and we will see who will back it up. Will Mark run win in a landslide like the White Sox are in the AL Central, or will Btown shock the world like the Marlins did 2 years ago.

Stay tuned to see who will be victorious.

[KP]

Juicy, juicy...let's get it started!

[Aveosmth]

Ok, this bout has gone to the judges!!!

The topic was: Who is going to win this year's World Series???

Btown Jay picked the Florida Marlins, and here's his article:

Just Cleaned My Crystal Ball

Ladies and gentleman, your winners of the 2005 MLB World Series are…. The Florida Marlins! As one of the most underrated teams in the league, Florida keeps flying under the radar. The 2003 World Champions never seem to receive the credit they deserve. Maybe it has to do with their inability to win a division title, something they have failed to do over their 12 years in the league. They have already proven they do not need a $200 million pay roll to win. As a matter of fact, this same core group has proven they can win the World Series. This year, the Marlins will finally get that credit when they knock off the perennial east champs, the Atlanta Braves on their way to their 2nd title in three years.

The off season loss of pitchers Brad Penny, Carl Pavano, and closer Armando Benitez seemed as if it would be too much for the Marlins to overcome. However, their pitching staff has the best ERA in the MLB. There is no better 1, 2, 3 punch at the top of any rotation than the Marlins monsters. Beckett, Willis, and Burnett have combined for an 18-9 record with an ERA of 2.40. Currently Al Leiter (4th starter) is struggling, but can be replaced in the rotation if necessary by Ismael Valdez. Valdez has been on the DL all season but it scheduled to return in June. Ismael, 14-9 last season, could help round out their rotation for the stretch run. Also, Brian Moehler is 2-2 with an ERA of 1.97 in seven starts. The Marlins will have three solid options to consider for their 4th and 5th starters.

The Marlins bullpen has very effective at times this season despite missing two of their best relievers. Those two major components of the pen will be back and soon and having major impact once again. Closer Guillermo Mota and reliever Antonio Alfonseca returning will help solidify the Marlins a top the NL. Reliever Todd Jones has been very impressive with eight saves and an ERA of 1.48 in Motas’ absence. With Jones and Alfonseca to hold down the 7th and 8th innings and setting up Mota to close it in the 9th, the Marlins will no longer be wasting any great starts by their starters.

Having the best ERA in baseball, by its self, can keep a team in playoff contention all year (well, unless you have an offense like poor Clemens in Houston). However, the pitching may not even be the best part of the Marlins team. They have put together one of the best line-ups top to bottom in the league. They have speed at the top, power in the middle, and “hit for average” guys at the end. With Pierre (averages 55 SB/year), and Castillo (.409 OB %) leading off there is always runners on for their power hitters. Miguel Cabrera (.356 BA, 10 HR, 34 RBI) and Carlos Delgado (.315, 10, 35) have been big run producers for the Marlins. With Encarnacion (.270, 7, 34), Lowell, Lo Duca, and Gonzalez rounding out their line-up they become a team that can put up runs in bunches. And you can’t forget Jeff Conine and Easley coming off the bench makes them solid top to bottom.

Looking back on this article, I asked myself “Why did I bother to include individual stats?” “Why did I bother to go over the line-up, or the rotation, or the players coming back from injury?” “Why did I explain that their bullpen is going to have four pitchers with ERA’s under 3.50?” In all reality I really only needed one paragraph to explain why they are going to win the World Series. Actually I don’t know if I even needed to form a complete paragraph. All I really needed to write was that the Marlins are FIRST in the MLB in team ERA. The Marlins are FIFTH in the MLB in team Batting Average. The Marlins are THIRD in the MLB in team fielding. If you ask me, there isn’t much else you can do but be among the best in hitting, pitching and fielding.

Mark C. picked the Chicago White Sox and here's his article:

The playoffs are ALL about pitching, and when it comes to pitching, the Chicago White Sox dominate. The White Sox will in it all because of their solid starting pitching, they have six pitchers who could easily be number 1s or 2s on other teams. They have a solid bullpen fronted by Dustin Hermanson, who in 22 innings hasn’t allowed a run. Their defense is much improved, because of their speed; they cover ground and don’t beat themselves.

Their hitting, while suspect at times has been clutch. Scott Podsednik and Tadhito Iguchi at number one and two in the order get on base, and their speed makes things happen. Finally, even if all the pieces aren’t there, GM Ken Williams knows that he has a deep farm system and has the will and ability to go and get another player for the stretch run.

The rebuttal round and the final scores will be coming soon!!! Who won this round? What do you think?? Remember, the writers are being judged on clarity and accuracy in this section.

[Shane]

Avery, my scoring is in your Inbox.

[KP]

Avery....I emailed you my scoring tonight.

[Aveosmth]

Here is the rebuttal round!!

Up first is Btown, here's his response to Mark:

Not all aboard the ChiSox Wagon

Let’s not get too crazy and jump on the White Sox band wagon just yet. While their start has been impressive, their team is kind of like a cars’ rear view mirror… “Objects may be closer than they appear”. Their record (35-18), looks amazing at face value but let’s scratch the surface a bit, shall we?

The White Sox are 18-4 vs. their division (yeah, the one with the Tigers, Indians, and Royals). They are 6-4 vs. the AL East. Which doesn’t look bad, but they have yet to play the Yankees or the Red Sox. And finally, they are 9-9 vs. the NL West. So if you look at the Sox record outside of the cushy AL central, they are 17-14 overall. It’s a shame for the White Sox that they won’t get to play their division in the playoffs huh?

The Sox pitching has been incredible, no question, but if you want to see why, please re-read the paragraph above. And Mr. Mark says they have 6 pitchers that could be #1 or #2’s on other teams? Yeah, maybe on the teams they beat on in their division. Jose Contreras, (2-2) and ‘El Duque’ (who is hurt more than he is healthy) certainly wouldn’t be part of that six. It seems to me that Mr. Mark looked at the wrong pitching staff while writing his article.

“Their hitting, while suspect at times”… Ladies and gentlemen we have the understatement of the year award winner here! Currently the Sox are ranked 22nd in the entire league. Their top three power hitters can’t get a base hit if their life depended on it. Konerko, with 13 Hr’s is hitting .223, Jermaine Dye with 10 Hr’s is hitting .229, and AJ Pierzynski with 8 Hr’s is hitting .255. These guys make Jason Giambi look like a batting champion (at .234 he’s hitting better than two of them). Plus with only one guy over .300 (Iguchi at .302), they will have trouble producing any runs in the playoffs.

I just can not over look the comment about their “deep farm system”. I can tell you one thing, it certainly is getting deep in here and I’m not referring to the Sox farm team. The White Sox have exactly ZERO prospects listed in the top 10 at any position. Good luck selling this garbage come July.

Will Chicago make the playoffs this year? Probably. Will they even make it to the World Series? I think the article has already answered that question. They do not have a better team than the Red Sox, Angels, Rangers or Yankees (despite their current state). I know, you do not always have to have the best team to beat another team… but they have to be better than they are to get through all of these teams. Oh, and lets not forget, if for some reason the above teams bus blew up, the Sox would still lose to the World Series Champs….. THE FLORIDA MARLINS.


Here's Mark's rebuttal of Btown:


I have to say, baseball really isn’t my strong suit. That being said, I was unsure of how I would fare in this competition. That is, until I saw BtownJay’s first article. Don’t get me wrong, it was a very well constructed argument, but mildly drawn out. The fact of the matter is that BtownJay tipped his hand too much and gave his best shot in round 1. I would know like to quote the game’s creator (Avery) about the rebuttal round.

“This round is the more important of the two”- Avery in his rules post.

BtownJay came strong, but unfortunately, went too hard too fast and will flame out. Anyway, on to why his argument is completely off base. I would first like to look at a quote from Bjay’s article.

“Actually I don’t know if I even needed to form a complete paragraph.”-BJ

I think the reason you needed to was just to prove you can, which, ultimately, makes you stronger than Mike Simonds.

“All I really needed to write was that the Marlins are FIRST in the MLB in team ERA. The Marlins are FIFTH in the MLB in team Batting Average. The Marlins are THIRD in the MLB in team fielding. If you ask me, there isn’t much else you can do but be among the best in hitting, pitching and fielding.”- Bjay

Wow, those are some really neat stats. I will tip my cap to BJay here in one respect; these stats clearly show the Marlins are playing their best ball. Top five in hitting, pitching, and fielding is certainly impressive to say the least. What else can you do, BJ asks?

I got this one-WIN! What does that say of a team when they are playing their best baseball of the year and their record is 28-23???? Is that really the best they can do? I think the topic Avery gave us, now I may be wrong, was who will win the World Series. If a team is playing their best baseball of the year and they are only five games above .500, how does that translate into a WS-caliber team? The White Sox are 35-18, a scant 17 games over .500.

Now if we were arguing who will have the best stats at the end of the year, maybe you would have an argument. If the topic was what team could paint the prettiest picture on the sidewalk using only blue and yellow sidewalk chalk, then you might best me, because honestly, I am not well versed in the chalking abilities of the White Sox. But the fact of the matter is that our topic is who is going to win the World Series, and, despite the Marlins playing their best baseball possible statistic-wise right now, they sorely lag behind in the most important statistic of all-wins. It can only get worse for the Marlins right now.

Why do the White Sox win? They do the little things that don’t show up on the stat sheet, and those are the things that will help you win in the playoffs. No one will argue that there is a more important stat than wins and the White Sox are definitely a team that knows how to do win games.

It is still early in the season; we haven’t even reached the All-Star break yet, so I think it’s far too early to roll-out individual stats. A lot of the individual rankings will change drastically once its all said and done, so I don’t weigh those too heavily. After all, inconsistency is fairly common in MLB. The Marlins should know this better than anyone as they went 14-8 in April only to follow up that act with a brilliant May, going 13-14 with a 4.32 team ERA

There are some things you can take away from the start of the season, and that’s the intangibles of teams. Intangibles such as speed can’t be measured accurately in statistics (steals are a poor gauge of team speed), but speed is something that doesn’t go in a slump and is critical to winning games. We can also get a feel for how teams play on the road, as winning on the road is critical in the playoffs (obviously).

The Marlins road record is a feeble 10-11 while the White Sox are 18-11. Even looking past the records the Marlins are just a different team on the road as their road era (4.6) is significantly higher than at home (3). On the other hand, the White Sox road era (3.6) is very comparable to their home era (3.4). Chicago is a team that knows how to win and can do it at home or on the road. Florida struggles on the road, and with the way they are playing now, if they make the playoffs (sure it seems like a lock now, but the Cincy Reds looked playoff bound at the break last year), they will have their fair share of road games.

Another thing you can glean from the start of the season is how a team responds in the clutch. Sure, players have different hitting streaks, but how team plays in crunch time is important in the playoffs. The White Sox thrive in crunch time and have better clutch hitting than anyone in MLB, while the Marlins are only 5-10 in one-run games. But hey Florida fans, if BJ says WS, then go ahead and buy your tickets now, as nothing says World Series caliber like choking in tight games.

The last issue I have with Bjay is players coming off the DL. Injuries are tough to gauge and you don’t know how a player will respond. Case in point, you mention what a big boost Guillermo Mota would be once he returns, yet he’s allowed five runs in three innings since he has been back. But you are right, someone should be getting his ring size right away.

Finally, another huge key to this WS puzzle is the fact that Sox GM Ken Williams knows that he has a deep farm system and has the ability to go and get another player for the stretch run. Chicago has a lot more to offer in a trade than Florida and the White Sox will be able to add another key player…if they even need it.

Bjay, you came strong, but it just wasn’t enough. Somewhat fitting that you took Florida as your team because the Marlins, just like you, have the potential to be great, but just can’t get all the pieces together in the end.

[Aveosmth]

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a decision!!!!!!!!!!!


Judge 1 scores the bout: 46-46 a draw!!

Judge 2 scores the bout: 47-44 Btown Jay!!

Judge 3 scores the bout: 47-46 Btown Jay!!


The winner, by unanimous decision is: BTOWN JAY!!




This was an excellent first match!!! I have a feeling that we will be hearing from both of these guys for a long time to come.

[Shane]

Kudo's to you Avery for posting the comments.

Jay....You da man in this round so it seems. Brush up though, you have your work cut out for you.

[Shane]

WTF? You removed the comments?

[Aveosmth]

Judges Comments--Article Round

·This will be one of the closest bouts we will ever have in this competition.

·Mark gave up too many points in the Article Round.

·Btown, I commend your efforts, but I found your article to be longer and more boring than the MLB season itself. It had plenty of stats to back up your points, but I was constantly reminded of something Ishkur wrote in the second grade.

·Mark, short & and nice and to the point!

Judges Comments--Rebuttal Round

·Both contestants had an excellent round, but Mark came on strong to take this section.

·Btown, you had an excellent point about the White Sox's record playing out of their division. Beautiful!

·Btown, Now THAT is the way we do that. It was concise, clear, humorous, and you tore apart Mark's stand brilliantly. My only negative point is that I did not care for the last sentence.

·Mark: First of all, I like anyone and any article that takes a shot at Mike. That being said, it was off topic and all over the place. Your rebuttal was similar to Jay's opening article. Long, dry, and stat riddled.

[Aveosmth]

I put em' back...I had to re-format it. LOL!!

[BtownJay]

YAY!! I can't believe I ended up winning that! Thanks to the judges for voting for me, and for your comments. I clearly am not a writer, and did the best i could to get my opinions down on "e-paper". I will try to do alittle better in the next round. Mark, good job man, we'll have a re-match soon.

PS- Avery, not that it makes much of a difference, but I won by Majority Decision (the official decision in boxing if a draw and two judges for one person). Unanimous would be all judges giving me the win. A split decision is if there are two judges for one person, and one for the other.

Thanks again everyone!!