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Point-counterpoint Point/Counterpoint is where members go head to head applying their knowledge in the sports world, a battle of the sports know-it-all.

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Old June 6th, 2005, 09:45 AM   #1
 
Join Date: 01-28-2005
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Aveosmth is on a distinguished road
Quarterfinal Match: NickinDallas vs Kevin H.

The final match is: Will the Raiders make the playoffs? Oakland made some key free agent acquistions like Randy Moss and Lamont Jordan. Will it be enough to turn a sub .500 team into a playoff caliber squad in one season?

This is between NickinDallas & Kevin H. Once again there are formatting issues w/this post, so don't hold that against the writers. Anything else goes! Judging for this contest will be done shortly as well.

Nick's Article--Against the Raiders

Will the raiders make the playoffs?!? Does a bear poop in the woods? Yes, but one question has nothing to do with the other. The better question is why in the world would they? They certainly won’t win their division. Not only will they not win it, they could easily come in dead last. Again.

The facts:
  1. Last year the raiders lost both of their division games to both the chargers and the chiefs; and split with the broncos. All 3 teams are still better.
  2. Their offense converted 35% of 3rd downs while the defense allowed their opponents to convert almost half the time.
  3. Not only did they not have a 1000yd rusher, they didn’t have a 500yd rusher. Something they have yet to address.
  4. kerry collins’ completion percentage was his lowest since 1998 when he played 11 game for the saints.
  5. They are one injured right guard away from an HOV lane to collins.


Knowing that they needed to improve on their 5-11 record, they made the biggest move in the off season by acquiring randy moss. While this will undoubtedly help them, it won’t come close to putting them over the hump. It will do great things for their ticket sales and maybe push them to a 6-10 record this year. Maybe.

Not only are they in probably the 2nd toughest division in the AFC, their NFC draw this year is against arguably the toughest division; the NFC East.

After starting the year in new england then back home for the chiefs and on to philly for week three, the best chance for their first win is in week 4 against the Cowboys but don’t bet on it.

Nevertheless, by the time that New Years’ Eve rolls around, the raiders will be more concerned with what party they can make it to than with who they’ll be playing in the following week.

Kevin H: Pro Raiders

DA
RAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiidddddddderrrrrrrrrrsssss ssssssssssss!!!!

Will be in the playoffs next season simply because I said so. No
really, I said
so. okay that’s not good enough for you than lets look at three facts
and
bonus....
1.The Schedule
Yeah the Raiders have the toughest first four games of any team in
the NFL. We
open at Patriots and than play the Chiefs and Eagles. Well those
Cowboys. Well I
think we get the Eagles and the Patriots at the perfect time. I mean
Patriots do
not start well and it's not snowing yet in New England. Even if we do
lose this
game it will be the only one we will lose in the first five weeks. We
beat the
Eagles because T.O will just be coming back from his hold out and he
will try
to out play Randy. Well Randy has proven when he lets his hair down go
balls to
the wall he is the best in the league. Chiefs and Cowboys are always
good games
they could go either way but I like say the Raiders win because of home
field.
That’s right baby, THE BLACK HOLE will be better than ever with Randy
on our
side. That leaves the remaining twelve games against teams three of
which made
the playoffs last year and two of them are the Chargers. Now I know
everyone has
realized now that the Chargers are not a very good football team. That
game will
be close and Randy & Jordan puts us over the edge in any close game.
Honestly
the hardest games will be against the Broncos like it is every season.
The
Raiders finish 12-4 losing to the Chiefs, Broncos, Charges and
Patriots.
2. Last year was a fluke.
Half the damn roster was hurt. This includes our starting, QB, RB
and backup,
both WR’s, LG, both CB’s, MLB, OLB and Safety. Now how does any team
have a
chance with thoseodds. This team is fresh and has a lot to prove this
year.
3. Close game factor.
Like I mentioned before with the addition of Randy and Jordan and a
healthy DF
the Raiders will win those close games they lost last year. Raiders
lost five
games last year by less than a touchdown. Do you not think that Randy
alone
give us at lest ten more points a game? IT DON'T MATTER WHAT YOU THINK!
He does.
THE BONUS.
And last of all the X-factor. Charles Woodsen is pissed!~!~!~!~! He has
taken a
lot of crap for not performing as expected and he wants a long term
contract.
The Raiders have made him the franchise player twice in consecutive
years. The
Raiders also drafted two of the top ten Corners out of this years
draft. The
Raiders tried dealing him on draft day and could not get anything for
him. This
means everyone feels the same about him. Woodsen has to prove himself
this year
with a big year.


Nick's Rebuttal:

While I’m sure that my antagonist has some great qualities, picking teams to go to the playoffs ain’t one of ‘em.

I don’t know which is more amusing; predicting a 3-1 start (week 5 is their bye), thinking that charles woodson is an ‘X factor’, or misquoting The Rock (the line was ‘It doesn’t matter what you think’). All entries make pretty strong arguments on why they should win, but I digress.

Let’s get down to business. You actually believe that the raiders are going to go into philly and win? In philly? Look, I’m certainly no fan of the eagles, but the raiders will be lucky to put 10 on the board, randy or no. I direct your attention to exhibit A: Last season when moss was on a good team, minnesota got thumped TWICE by the eagles. Another thing, philly should win this game even if t.o. is a no show.

The oakland defense last year gave up, on average, just over 26 points a game (2nd worse in the league). I know you tout the raiders picking up 2 of the top 10 corners in this years’ draft. You seem to think that is a good thing. How often do rookies make a significant impact? Seems to me on a team as depleted as this, you would want to take the best CB available and then address another area on the team.

You mentioned the black hole as being a reason that the raiders would make the playoffs; o.k. that’s silly.

I’m going to have to quote you on this one “Now I know everyone has realized now that the chargers are not a very good football team.” Excuse me? Could you define ‘everyone’ for me? Or maybe ‘good football team’? The chargers went 12-4 last year and beat the raiders by a combined score of 34 points! Prepare for more of the same this year.

As for your X-factor; I REALLY hate to point this out to you, but your X-factor’s name is charles woodson not woodsen. Embarrassing typo aside, the terms “not playing as expected” and “wants a long term contract” are, in fact, mutually exclusive. And when everyone in the league takes a pass on you, they are usually right.

Raiders will be doing good to win 6. I think Dick Vermeil said it best, "Playoffs?! Don't talk about playoffs! Are you kidding me? Playoffs?!.”


Kevin's Rebuttal:

Does a Bear Poop in the woods” what are you three? You’re right the better question is how the Raiders could make the playoffs after one of the worse season we have ever had. Well it’s obvious that you my friend are not a real football fan. If you were than you would know that just last year four teams turned last place records into records that got them into the playoffs. Pittsburg being one of them going from 6-10 in 2003 to 14-2 last year. History repeats itself every year with a few teams getting into the playoffs that were in last place the year before. So why in the world wouldn’t they? I mean they are the Raiders and last time I check Mr. Davis was still in control and Mr. Davis Just wants to win baby. Now for you’re so called facts,

1 2 3 and to the 4 Randy Moss Dr. Jordan are at the door, ready to make an impact so back on up cause you know we about to tear defenses up! But back to the ledger at hand, perfection is perfected so I’m going to let you understand, from a young G’s perspective. It’s like this and like that and um it’s like that and like this and um BIG KEV creep to the keyboard like a phantom. Well Moss is going be creeping and his creeping and his peeping and he damn near got caught but he just let his hair down and he kept beeping. Now it’s time for me to make my impression felt. So sit back relax and learn some real facts bro. You never seen a team like this before. With a Receiver who can control the defense like a maestro. At the same time with a running game that Jordan brings, you know and I know that’s dangerous shit to add to Davis’s collection this elections symbolizes some old school so take another hit because you were smoking when you wrote you’re so called facts.

Not Such of a fact #1

The Chiefs defense could not stop my Pop Warner team’s offense. Our passing attacking is suburb compared to the Chiefs secondary and yes I’m still talking about my pop Warner team. The X factor has turned into the dude factor. What do you have left in Kansas City? Denver will be tough as always I’ll give you that but the Chargers are in for a rude awaking this year. They are too busy singing the “super chargers” song to prepare what going to happen to them this year. Teams, especially the AFC west teams will be gunning for them. Do you know the last AFC west champion to lose in the first round of the playoffs? I’ll help you because I know you’re a little slow. The Chargers.

Not such of a fact#2

This one was you’re best fact but maybe you should have looked up the reason for this, see following Not such a facts

#3

You’re right the Raiders did not have a 500 yard rusher. Did you also look up that Three of the starting Running backs were out more than half the season? We still manage to get 4 yards a carrier and if I can be a smart ass, 4x3=12 yards and if I can recall it only takes ten yards for a first down. Yet the Raiders still addressed this issue, Signing Lamount Jordan and a healthy Crockett and Farges and the addition of Randy Moss and Jerry Porter on the other side of him. Come on kid, you’re facts are wack but do have the NFL channel don’t you. Come at me correct or don’t come at all!

#4

Collins sucks. But you can not get pass the fact that he throw for 17 touchdowns in his last four games with only three interceptions. Maybe he sucked because he was learning the system and was not the starter because the starter got hurt? Again, come correct or don’t come at all.

Not a fact at all#3

Right Guard, Both Walker and Slaughter can play both Tackle and Guard and so can Gallery if three of our starting Guards got hurt. Where did you get this fact from, out of you’re ass? The Raiders gave up 30 sacks last year that was 6th in the NFL. Man you just dug you’re self into a little whole didn’t you?

In closing let me say this,

It seems that you’re good for some wack facts but hear is a fact about you’re momma that you might not like, I heard she was a Frisco fan? But Forget you’re momma I’m talking about you and me toe to toe, you’re bark was loud but you’re bite was not factious and the facts you’re were kicking were quite booty liscious. To get with BIG KEV oh is he crazy, with you’re momma and daddy hollering baaaaby. And just to let you know that if you fuck with Oakland you’re fucking wit Raiders Nation and I ain’t even swinging them things I’m hollering Randy Moss all the way to the playoffs, Fool.

P.S

The toughest division in the NFC? With a record of 31-33 and one team making it to the playoffs? Dude, 2 hours of sports center for a month than hola back!

BIG KEV LATE
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Old June 6th, 2005, 10:11 AM   #2
 
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I forgot to mention this, the judges did not hold their tongues in this battle!!! Stay tuned.
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Old June 6th, 2005, 01:12 PM   #3
 
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Drop the hammer already!
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Old June 6th, 2005, 01:57 PM   #4
 
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Nick,

We're just waiting for one judge....Believe me, I can't wait to announce the results!!
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Old June 6th, 2005, 03:03 PM   #5
 
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Do we have an ETA?
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Old June 6th, 2005, 03:53 PM   #6
 
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Ok, the tentative ETA for the decision on this bout is 8PM CST. Thanks for everyone's patience, we have literally had some technical diffculties.
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Old June 6th, 2005, 03:58 PM   #7
 
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Cool. Thanks.
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Old June 6th, 2005, 07:00 PM   #8
 
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Soon. Soon.
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Old June 6th, 2005, 07:19 PM   #9
 
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The Results Are In!!

Ladies and Gentlemen,

The winner, by a KNOCKOUT is: NickinDallas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Judges Comments--Article Round

Kevin H: You show the Raider passion on your sleeve.

NickinDallas: You came out with a strong case with one big flaw. The Raiders signed Lamont Jordan, so they did address that concern. That cost you points.

Kevin H: In all honesty, I felt dirty after reading your article.

NickinDallas: Well done, and straight to the point. I like that. Nothing but the facts......as you see them.

Kevin H: The spelling and typos will kill your article.

Judges Comments--Rebuttal Round

NickinDallas: Well done my friend. You went in, attacked, and left. Nothing more to do on that one.

Kevin H: You had a flair for the dramatic, but I don't think it'll be enough to save you.

NickinDallas: You were smart to expose Kevin's comments about the Chargers. Also, you didn't leave anything for chance, and the spelling error on Woodson might be the dagger through the heart.

Kevin H: After reading that, I don't like football anymore.

Kevin H: Kevin seemed like he was more interested in pumping his allegiance to the Raiders than why they would make the playoffs. The rap and rhyme was cool, but made little sense... it was almost exclusively about Moss. When he got personal about Mom and Dad he lost me entirely.
Also, he never really addressed the defense in either the first round or the rebuttal.

There you have it, the second knockout of the day. Wow!!
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Old June 6th, 2005, 07:30 PM   #10
 
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Congrats Nick, that's kind of the way I thought it would go. Good luck to you... but not too much if we are up against each other next.
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Old June 6th, 2005, 07:31 PM   #11
 
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I'd like to thank the judges and BigKev. This round could've gone the other way had the question been about the Cowboys and not the raiders.

BigKev- I look forward to a rematch sometime. Hopefully on a neutral topic.
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Old June 6th, 2005, 09:05 PM   #12
 
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fuck you

Are you telling me that typos are worse than having good facts? What ever I fiqured that was coming when one of the judges said he was un clear of who Jordan was. ANy who I'll take this in stride Congrats Nick and good luck in the later rounds. I look forward to meeting the champion in a title bout soon after he is crowned. Oh and for the record, you guys should be judging style as well.

BIG KEV, knocked out but not dead!
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Old June 6th, 2005, 09:20 PM   #13
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BtownJay
Congrats Nick, that's kind of the way I thought it would go. Good luck to you... but not too much if we are up against each other next.
Thank you sir and right back atcha!
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