Point/Counterpoint Finals Nick in Dallas vs. Dave M.

Aveosmth · June 13th, 2005, 10:17 AM

The Point/Counterpoint finals will start on June 19th between NickinDallas and Dave M. This will surely be a great battle to end what has been a fantastic tournament.

ssigman · June 13th, 2005, 01:00 PM

the early line

nick 2-1
dave 4-1
the judges doing something stupid 1-5

Aveosmth · June 13th, 2005, 02:05 PM

SSigman,

I love the line!!! That's hilarious!!!

Dave M · June 13th, 2005, 07:32 PM

I love the line, too, especially given how bitter ssigman clearly is. Get over it, man. Ya lost.

Nick, good luck in the finals. May the best man win.

Shane · June 13th, 2005, 08:50 PM

I think Ssigman and Rusty need to get eachother off to relieve some tension.

That aside, good luck Nick and Dave, this ought to be FANTASTIC. I can't wait.

NICKinDALLAS · June 13th, 2005, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave M

I love the line, too, especially given how bitter ssigman clearly is. Get over it, man. Ya lost.

Nick, good luck in the finals. May the best man win.

Thank you. Same to you sir.

ssigman · June 14th, 2005, 08:18 AM

the line has nothing to do with me losing, its more to do with the who the judges are...stop thinking your the center of the universe bro

Rusty27 · June 14th, 2005, 08:51 AM

I suggest changing the name of this site to the SportsCommune.com where differences in opinion are discouraged.Point Man can start all the threads and we can all reply with our approval and conform with the stated opinion.Any posters not conforming to the "state issued" opinion will be catagorized as outcasts and sent to the ESPN gulag message board camps.

ssigman · June 14th, 2005, 10:40 AM

if its not hockey, 99% of the people are clueless here

Aveosmth · June 14th, 2005, 11:36 AM

SSigman,

I don't know how you figure that one...please read my columns posted here for the past 3 months...2 on NCAA Football/2 on baseball/2 on basketball & I don't think I'm clueless. I also picked two other judges who have strong knowledge of sports & writing as well. I have voted for people who have made very solid points, but whose opinions I personally disagreed with.

You only lost by 1 or 2 points I believe on my scorecard, and that had to do with your statement of Kobe wanting to get traded from Charlotte. How would Kobe know he was going to Charlotte? The Nets, Mavs, and Hornets all had expressed interest in him, so he could've gone anywhere. At the time he was totally unproven, so even if he had made statements about wanting a trade, no one would've factored that in. The reason Kobe came to the Lakers was that Jerry West saw Kobe absolutely destroy Jerry Stackhouse, Eric Snow and Aaron McKie in a pre-draft work out in Philly. He was convinced at that point that Kobe would tear up the league & would've traded with just about any team that drafted him. West & the Lakers were paranoid that someone would find out what they knew, and thought that word would get out. This story is well documented, and West even says that the night before the 96' draft was the longest of his life. He was ecstatic that Kobe fell to (16th, I believe) because he knew Charlotte would take Vlade for the pick. Back then, everyone thought Charlotte got the better of the Lakers...Vlade was a proven big man, and VERY popular in L.A. The great majority of Laker fans were not happy about the trade back then.

All in all, you did very well in the competition...you defeated DMon after losing a very crucial point, and you almost knocked off the guy who many consider to be the best in the field.

Rusty,

I for one, ENCOURAGE disagreeing with the judging. The only thing I ask is that you and everyone else do it in a way that is respectful. The whole premise of this competition is that there can be more than one right answer. Therefore, someone is always going to feel slighted to some degree. I don't mind hearing your opinion on what you thought the decision would be. If I didn't want anyone to interact, I wouldn't post the judges comments or the scoring.

Rusty27 · June 14th, 2005, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aveosmth

SSigman,

Rusty,

I for one, ENCOURAGE disagreeing with the judging. The only thing I ask is that you and everyone else do it in a way that is respectful. The whole premise of this competition is that there can be more than one right answer. Therefore, someone is always going to feel slighted to some degree. I don't mind hearing your opinion on what you thought the decision would be. If I didn't want anyone to interact, I wouldn't post the judges comments or the scoring.

Aveosmth,
Thanks for the response and explaination.

ssigman · June 14th, 2005, 01:41 PM

my rebuttal to your post:

first, don't get me wrong, i had alot of fun being in the competition and reading the other articles too....but i have to do this to you....go to http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kobe_bryant/

and scroll down to this line
"Selected out of high school by the Charlotte Hornets in the first round (13th pick overall) of the 1996 NBA Draft....Draft rights traded by the Hornets to the L.A. Lakers for Vlade Divac on 7/11/96."

now you said,

"You only lost by 1 or 2 points I believe on my scorecard, and that had to do with your statement of Kobe wanting to get traded from Charlotte. How would Kobe know he was going to Charlotte? The Nets, Mavs, and Hornets all had expressed interest in him, so he could've gone anywhere."

also, you said he was totally unproven but he destroyed Stackhouse, Snow and Mckie in a pre-draft...wouldn't that make him noticed by NBA scouts?

then we have this from another site,
"Taken by the Charlotte Hornets with the 13 overall pick, Jerry West was able to pry him away for Vlade Divac. The move gave L.A. enough cap room to sign Shaquille O'Neal, in turn letting the Lakers bring Bryant along slowly"

which do you think they wanted to do more...steal a so called unproven guy or get enough room to sign shaq, who was in the prime of his career.

just some thoughts..and if you look at the 96 draft you'll see it was pretty stacked too...peja 14, nash 15

Aveosmth · June 14th, 2005, 01:55 PM

The workout where he "ate up" Stackhouse was a private one...that's why West was worried that someone would leak the news that Bryant was really good.

The "cap" argument is definitely valid...there is no doubt that the Lakers had some motivation to get further under the cap to compete w/Orlando. However, they could have made a million different trades to do this...the fact that they traded for Bryant, when they had Peeler, Eddie Jones, and Nick Van Exel in front of him shows how bad they wanted him.

Shane · June 14th, 2005, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty17

I suggest changing the name of this site to the SportsCommune.com where differences in opinion are discouraged.Point Man can start all the threads and we can all reply with our approval and conform with the stated opinion.Any posters not conforming to the "state issued" opinion will be catagorized as outcasts and sent to the ESPN gulag message board camps.

So it's ok for you to disagree with me, but not the other way around?

It's just a message board man, don't go overboard.

Shane · June 14th, 2005, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aveosmth

I for one, ENCOURAGE disagreeing with the judging. The only thing I ask is that you and everyone else do it in a way that is respectful. The whole premise of this competition is that there can be

June 13th, 2005, 10:17 AM	#1
Aveosmth Join Date: 01-28-2005 Posts: 241	Point/Counterpoint Finals Nick in Dallas vs. Dave M. The Point/Counterpoint finals will start on June 19th between NickinDallas and Dave M. This will surely be a great battle to end what has been a fantastic tournament.

June 13th, 2005, 01:00 PM	#2
ssigman Join Date: 03-15-2004 Posts: 27,221	the early line nick 2-1 dave 4-1 the judges doing something stupid 1-5

June 13th, 2005, 02:05 PM	#3
Aveosmth Join Date: 01-28-2005 Posts: 241	SSigman, I love the line!!! That's hilarious!!!

June 13th, 2005, 07:32 PM	#4
Dave M Join Date: 06-06-2005 Location: Pacifica Posts: 21	I love the line, too, especially given how bitter ssigman clearly is. Get over it, man. Ya lost. Nick, good luck in the finals. May the best man win.

June 13th, 2005, 08:50 PM	#5
Shane Join Date: 06-08-2003 Location: Bend, Oregon Posts: 6,340	I think Ssigman and Rusty need to get eachother off to relieve some tension. That aside, good luck Nick and Dave, this ought to be FANTASTIC. I can't wait.

June 14th, 2005, 08:18 AM	#7
ssigman Join Date: 03-15-2004 Posts: 27,221	the line has nothing to do with me losing, its more to do with the who the judges are...stop thinking your the center of the universe bro

June 14th, 2005, 08:51 AM	#8
Rusty27 Join Date: 07-15-2004 Location: Knoxville,Tenn. Posts: 27,904	I suggest changing the name of this site to the SportsCommune.com where differences in opinion are discouraged.Point Man can start all the threads and we can all reply with our approval and conform with the stated opinion.Any posters not conforming to the "state issued" opinion will be catagorized as outcasts and sent to the ESPN gulag message board camps.

June 14th, 2005, 10:40 AM	#9
ssigman Join Date: 03-15-2004 Posts: 27,221	if its not hockey, 99% of the people are clueless here

June 14th, 2005, 11:36 AM	#10
Aveosmth Join Date: 01-28-2005 Posts: 241	SSigman, I don't know how you figure that one...please read my columns posted here for the past 3 months...2 on NCAA Football/2 on baseball/2 on basketball & I don't think I'm clueless. I also picked two other judges who have strong knowledge of sports & writing as well. I have voted for people who have made very solid points, but whose opinions I personally disagreed with. You only lost by 1 or 2 points I believe on my scorecard, and that had to do with your statement of Kobe wanting to get traded from Charlotte. How would Kobe know he was going to Charlotte? The Nets, Mavs, and Hornets all had expressed interest in him, so he could've gone anywhere. At the time he was totally unproven, so even if he had made statements about wanting a trade, no one would've factored that in. The reason Kobe came to the Lakers was that Jerry West saw Kobe absolutely destroy Jerry Stackhouse, Eric Snow and Aaron McKie in a pre-draft work out in Philly. He was convinced at that point that Kobe would tear up the league & would've traded with just about any team that drafted him. West & the Lakers were paranoid that someone would find out what they knew, and thought that word would get out. This story is well documented, and West even says that the night before the 96' draft was the longest of his life. He was ecstatic that Kobe fell to (16th, I believe) because he knew Charlotte would take Vlade for the pick. Back then, everyone thought Charlotte got the better of the Lakers...Vlade was a proven big man, and VERY popular in L.A. The great majority of Laker fans were not happy about the trade back then. All in all, you did very well in the competition...you defeated DMon after losing a very crucial point, and you almost knocked off the guy who many consider to be the best in the field. Rusty, I for one, ENCOURAGE disagreeing with the judging. The only thing I ask is that you and everyone else do it in a way that is respectful. The whole premise of this competition is that there can be more than one right answer. Therefore, someone is always going to feel slighted to some degree. I don't mind hearing your opinion on what you thought the decision would be. If I didn't want anyone to interact, I wouldn't post the judges comments or the scoring.

June 14th, 2005, 01:41 PM	#12
ssigman Join Date: 03-15-2004 Posts: 27,221	my rebuttal to your post: first, don't get me wrong, i had alot of fun being in the competition and reading the other articles too....but i have to do this to you....go to http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kobe_bryant/ and scroll down to this line "Selected out of high school by the Charlotte Hornets in the first round (13th pick overall) of the 1996 NBA Draft....Draft rights traded by the Hornets to the L.A. Lakers for Vlade Divac on 7/11/96." now you said, "You only lost by 1 or 2 points I believe on my scorecard, and that had to do with your statement of Kobe wanting to get traded from Charlotte. How would Kobe know he was going to Charlotte? The Nets, Mavs, and Hornets all had expressed interest in him, so he could've gone anywhere." also, you said he was totally unproven but he destroyed Stackhouse, Snow and Mckie in a pre-draft...wouldn't that make him noticed by NBA scouts? then we have this from another site, "Taken by the Charlotte Hornets with the 13 overall pick, Jerry West was able to pry him away for Vlade Divac. The move gave L.A. enough cap room to sign Shaquille O'Neal, in turn letting the Lakers bring Bryant along slowly" which do you think they wanted to do more...steal a so called unproven guy or get enough room to sign shaq, who was in the prime of his career. just some thoughts..and if you look at the 96 draft you'll see it was pretty stacked too...peja 14, nash 15

June 14th, 2005, 01:55 PM	#13
Aveosmth Join Date: 01-28-2005 Posts: 241	The workout where he "ate up" Stackhouse was a private one...that's why West was worried that someone would leak the news that Bryant was really good. The "cap" argument is definitely valid...there is no doubt that the Lakers had some motivation to get further under the cap to compete w/Orlando. However, they could have made a million different trades to do this...the fact that they traded for Bryant, when they had Peeler, Eddie Jones, and Nick Van Exel in front of him shows how bad they wanted him.