SportsRant.com
 Rant Mail
 Privacy
 Advertise
 Team One Tickets
User Name
Password
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Go Back   Sportsrant Community > News Stories > Rant News Stories

Rant News Stories Main Rant news stories come from here

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old December 2nd, 2005, 09:50 AM   #1
SportsFanMagazine.com
 
Join Date: 06-04-2004
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 223
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournament Wins: 0
Greg_Wyshynski is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to Greg_Wyshynski
The Jester's Quart: When Gretzky's Records Fall

"Unless the league extends the schedule from 82 to 150 games, Gretzky's single-season totals in each category are equally unattainable. His record 92 goals, set during the 1981-82 season, should stand until our sun burns out or the league folds -- whichever comes first."

-- From the article...
Full Article
Greg_Wyshynski is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old December 4th, 2005, 11:50 AM   #2
Crazed Fan
 
Join Date: 12-27-2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 438
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournament Wins: 0
Ishkur is on a distinguished road
Send a message via ICQ to Ishkur Send a message via MSN to Ishkur
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg_Wyshynski
At first it'll be like the summer of '98, with the world enthralled as McGwire and Sammy Sosa stalked the legendary mark. Years later, we'll look back and openly question its validity. Gretzky played with a red line. Gretzky played with goalies that were free to play the puck wherever they wanted. Gretzky took punishment in the offensive zone, or skated like hell to avoid it. Gretzky played in a league that didn't whistle a player for thinking about hooking an opponent, let alone one that actually does it.
Gretzky played in a league that went from 6 teams to 21 in ten years (that's 120 hockey players to 420). And this is just Canadian players (and a few yanks), there was no talent coming from Europe yet. The totality of European players joining the NHL in the 70s was exactly 1: Borje Salming, a defensemen from Sweden. How did he make it to the NHL? There was a two week break in the Canada-Soviet summit series between the 4 games in Canada and in Moscow. During this break, the Canadian players decided to play some exhibition games in Europe to get themselves prepared for the back 4. When they played the Swedish team, Borje Salming impressed them so much that after the game Esposito told him that he oughta play in the NHL, he was so good. The next year, he jumped ship and was signed by Toronto. Played 17 seasons and over 1000 games in the NHL.

Up until then, the NHL didn't think much of European talent. But the summit series had really opened its eyes and showed it that the world had indeed caught up.

But until the iron curtain could fall, there wasn't much pickings aside from the occasional Swede or Fin forward, or the occasional Czech defector. Such it was that the NHL increased by 400% during the 70s and, with only a North American talent pool to choose from, filled the extra teams with really poor hockey players.

I don't want to take anything away from Bobby Orr, but you got to admit: he was a superstar playing against vastly inferior opposition. When you watch him skating circles around people, just keep reminding yourself: Those are Junior calibre players he's skating against. Esposito shattered the mythical 50-goal standard with 76 against a VERY watered down league. There were guys in the NHL back then who would not even crack a Junior AA squad today. And if you thought the NHL was bad, the WHA was even worse. Because professional hockey expanded too quickly, for several years it had very very VERY bad hockey. Slap Shot wasn't too far off the mark with its goonshow antics. When guys couldn't skate, they decided to hit, fight and injure.

Enter Gretzky, a ridiculously great hockey player, playing against ridiculously weak opponents. Now, again, not to discredit his attributes, but he was simply playing another game in another era, with different standards. I don't equate his records with Barry Bonds or Roger Maris. I equate them with.....Wilt Chamberlain's 100-point game. Simply something that occurred in another era, when the talent wasn't as fierce or widespread (or locked away by communism), when the money didn't allure the best of the best, and when the league was watered down. Will someone break Chamberlain's record today? ....hell no. Will somebody break Gretzky's? Probably not. As of this writing, the highest scorer is Jason Spezza with 43. At this point in the season in 85, Gretzky had somewhere around 55-60 points--an already insurmoutable lead. Simon Gagne leads the league with 23 goals. By December 81, Gretzky was already in the late 30s, and before the New Year had his 50th goal in 39 games.

So the new NHL is making those records imaginable again, but not easily beatable by any stretch. It's really hard to be that productive that consistently. That's what separated Gretzky from everyone else. He simply kept scoring, every night. There was no such thing as a slump to him.

But again, he was playing in a watered down league where the offensive players simply bulldozed inferior opposition. They called it firewagon hockey, and it prompted a 1983 Sports Illustrated issue to declare "And the Sleek Shall Inherit the Ice". And, also, despite both our rosy childhood memories of high-flying 80s hockey, there were people then who hated it, who thought the high scores were tainted, who felt the Edmonton Oilers record 4.6 goals a game (446) in 83-84 a bastardization of the game. When back in the 50s and 60s 20 goals was the mark of a good hockey player, in the 80s that was standard. Third-line wingers with no PP time were getting that. It was a travesty to the old fogies who saw the new 8-6 games and 5-4 games the ruination of the old time hockey (Eddie Shore!) that they grew up with. Gretzky's astronomical statistics made legends like Stan Mikita and Bobby Hull look extremely ordinary. And now, you're doing the same thing, complaining that today's players might erase the awe of the Great One.

After all, every generation claims that its first exposure to something is the best that something's ever been.

I don't like some of the new rules, but I gotta admit: The current NHL is a hell of a lot better than the dreck we were forced to sleep through the past ten years. It's not perfect (yet), but it's a step in the right direction. Undoubtedly they will keep tinkering with it and make smart decisions that will continue along its present course. The NHL will never be the offensive boon it was in the 80s, but that doesn't mean it can't be high-scoring again.
Ishkur is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old December 5th, 2005, 06:52 AM   #3
SportsFanMagazine.com
 
Join Date: 06-04-2004
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 223
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournament Wins: 0
Greg_Wyshynski is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to Greg_Wyshynski
Can't argue with most of your thoughts, Ish. I think that's why any notion of adding an "*" to nearly any sports record is a silly idea, considering the amount of changes we've seen in each era. I actually have a chapter on this in my book coming out next April.

I will say, however, that none of Gretzky's records could be traced back to artificial rule enhancements like we have today.
Greg_Wyshynski is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old December 5th, 2005, 08:33 AM   #4
Crazed Fan
 
Join Date: 12-27-2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 438
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournament Wins: 0
Ishkur is on a distinguished road
Send a message via ICQ to Ishkur Send a message via MSN to Ishkur
Granted.

Add this, then: That the only true measure of an athlete's greatness is how he measures up against his contemporaries. Gretzky can't be compared to Richard, because they're two totally different eras. Comparing athletes of different generations is just too dicey like that. Instead, measure Gretxky up against the guys he DID play against. He was too good even for them. Everyone was scoring in the 80s, but Gretzky was scoring even more.

It's the same thing with Bobby Orr. If the talent pool was that watered down back then, could not every bonafied superstar have done what he'd done? Well, sure....and some of them actually did. But none were as good at it as he was. He simply took the whole "take advantage of the newbs" thing in the expansion era to a whole 'nother level. And that's why he's praised to high heaven.

Same thing with the 80s. Every offensive player just lit up the lamp so much it was ridiculous. Guys like Peter Stastney, Dale Hawerchuk, Gilbert Perreault, Dino Ciccarelli, Michel Goulet, Bernie Federko, Glen Anderson....all these guys would have been solid third liners today, definite 20-goal men, maybe their best season is to get a point a game. But back then their stats were inflated to ridiculous proportions. 50 goals and 100 points, all the time. It made the 50-goal mark very ordinary.

There were also a lot of people that hated Lemieux, because he was just as proficient as Gretzky, and that there was the problem: that Gretzky's genius was not a product of his skill, but the fact that the league was simply too weak. Because Lemieux and Yzerman were making such stats ordinary. The Lemieux and Gretzky points derby was just as threatening to the purity of the game as the Sosa/McGwire/Bonds/Griffey/whoever-else homerun slam-a-rama. They were making a mockery of hallowed records and achievements.

But this is why we keep records, isn't it? To see them fall? The game must evolve. It hasn't been the same since the Rocket Richard rule (ie: power play goal means the guy can come out. Before then, he had to serve the full two minutes. Maurice was just too deadly during that timeframe), It hasn't been the same since Gordie Howe invented the dump-and-chase, it hasn't been the same since the players formed a union, it hasn't been the same since it expanded, it hasn't been the same since Bobby Orr invented the concept of defencemen leading the rush, it hasn't been the same since the Summit Series, it hasn't been the same since the WHA folded, it hasn't been the same since the Wayne Gretzky rule (coincidental penalties. Edmonton playing 4-on-4 was like a power play), it hasn't been the same since the strike, it hasn't been the same since the lockout, it hasn't been the same since the neutral zone trap smothered it into damnation, it hasn't been the same since it took a year off, it hasn't been the same since the new rules have been implemented.

But you gotta admit: It is getting better.
Ishkur is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old December 5th, 2005, 09:30 PM   #5
I'll make ya famous.
 
Shane's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06-08-2003
Location: Bend, Oregon
Posts: 6,408
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournament Wins: 0
Shane has a spectacular aura aboutShane has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via AIM to Shane
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg_Wyshynski
Can't argue with most of your thoughts, Ish. I think that's why any notion of adding an "*" to nearly any sports record is a silly idea, considering the amount of changes we've seen in each era. I actually have a chapter on this in my book coming out next April.

I will say, however, that none of Gretzky's records could be traced back to artificial rule enhancements like we have today.
I assume you will let us know where we can find said book come April? I know I want to get a copy.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by BtownJay View Post
fuck the Flyers.
Shane is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old December 5th, 2005, 11:34 PM   #6
SportsFanMagazine.com
 
Join Date: 06-04-2004
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 223
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournament Wins: 0
Greg_Wyshynski is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to Greg_Wyshynski
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane
I assume you will let us know where we can find said book come April? I know I want to get a copy.
You got it. It's in the last stages of design right now. Exciting times. I'll spill all the beans when it publishes.

Oh, and Ish: there's no fracking way Stastny's a third-liner in today's NHL. He might have been lumbering towards the end, but with those hands he's a point-a-night on the PP.
Greg_Wyshynski is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old December 5th, 2005, 11:45 PM   #7
I'll make ya famous.
 
Shane's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06-08-2003
Location: Bend, Oregon
Posts: 6,408
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournament Wins: 0
Shane has a spectacular aura aboutShane has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via AIM to Shane
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg_Wyshynski
You got it. It's in the last stages of design right now. Exciting times. I'll spill all the beans when it publishes.

Oh, and Ish: there's no fracking way Stastny's a third-liner in today's NHL. He might have been lumbering towards the end, but with those hands he's a point-a-night on the PP.
Cool, thanks. And I agree with your stand on Stastny.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by BtownJay View Post
fuck the Flyers.
Shane is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old December 6th, 2005, 08:24 AM   #8
Crazed Fan
 
Join Date: 12-27-2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 438
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournament Wins: 0
Ishkur is on a distinguished road
Send a message via ICQ to Ishkur Send a message via MSN to Ishkur
Fine, but that's beside the point. The point is there were an awful lot of mediocre hockey players literally gifted with uneven stats back then, just as there are players today who don't seem to do anything special. 40 points last season was considered a good player. In the 80s, you would've been sent down to the minors for that kind of production
Ishkur is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:37 PM.








Copyright © 2002 - SportsRant.com. All rights reserved.
All materials contained on this web site are copyrighted by SportsRant.com except where explicitly noted otherwise.
SEO by vBSEO 3.2.0 ©2008, Crawlability, Inc.