kobe bryant - Comments and thoughts?

Mike · January 10th, 2006, 07:49 AM

I wanted to get some opinions on Kobe Bryant.

He has had some great games this season, but is he really better off without Shaq there. I am not asking this as a team, but as a player.

Is he really good, or just a normal player with some skill

Rate him on a scale of 1-10

Rusty27 · January 10th, 2006, 08:11 AM

The guy can shoot.I give him a ten for shooting the ball
I give him a 7 as a basketball player.

BtownBeers · January 10th, 2006, 08:41 AM

I agree with Rusty he can shoot and can lead his team but overal 6 or 7 in my mind as a basketball player. He is the only one with talent on that team so that makes sense he has these huge games.

jtg33 · January 10th, 2006, 06:02 PM

As a shooter, he's a 10. He has a great shot and he can really play the game. As a team player, I'd only give him about a 5 or a 6. Overall, I'd put him at a 7.

Rusty27 · January 10th, 2006, 06:16 PM

We all agree so far
Or is my gun compelling you to agree with me.

jtg33 · January 10th, 2006, 06:18 PM

I don't know. It's so puny I can barely see it. For all I know, it's just a fancy cigarette lighter.

Rusty27 · January 10th, 2006, 06:20 PM

I don't even smoke! It could be a PEZ dispenser though.

KP · January 10th, 2006, 10:25 PM

Adrian Zmed to Fred Dryer....LOL! At least you took a step up on the masculine meter!

What was the question in this thread again? Oh, Kobe....

Kobe is a great player, period. His problem is his head....all he wants to be is a scorer. He could be a great defender, passer, rebounder....all of that.

I think I would agree with everyone here that he's a 10 shooter but a 7 player.

Shane · January 10th, 2006, 11:45 PM

Great shooter, above average player.

Above all, he is an OJ, and should be in prison.

Rusty27 · January 11th, 2006, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KP

Adrian Zmed to Fred Dryer....LOL! At least you took a step up on the masculine meter!

It was really more a spoof on Shatner's awful lines in that show,but things were getting out of control when the Zmed speedo picture surfaced.So,Fred is a better fit with his NFL past but still had the 80's corny script.The guy with the
bad over acted lines today is the short bald guy from The Sheild.

KP · January 11th, 2006, 11:40 AM

I'm glad you have a sense of humor, Rusty! My comments are all in fun!

I used to watch both of those shows when I was younger, but I've never seen The Shield.

Raider Assassin · January 17th, 2006, 12:57 PM

Shane,dude they don't incarcerate men for having sex with town sluts and the only thing I blame Kobe for in that situation,is for not having better taste with whom he chose to commit adultry with.

KP I know that you didn't pose this question for my sake,as you no doubt know what my answer is going to be,but I'll answer anyway. As a player with unmatched skills by anyone in the league except maybe Labron,I rate him a 10. As a team player I rate him as an 8 and the reason for that is that he hasn't fully obtained the trust in his team mates and if you watch the Lakers on a regular basis as I do,then you could truly understand why he hasn't or doesn't have complete trust in them. People tend to forget that MJ was the same way in his early years and felt that he had to do it all up until Phil talked to him about trusting his team mates and also when the Bulls started putting better players around him.The longer this current Laker team plays together,I think the more Kobe will learn to trust them and with them being the second youngest team in the league behind Atlanta,that trust will be developed in time and as long as the supporting cast shows not only Kobe,but Phil as well,that they can be counted on in clutch situations just as MJ's supporting cast showed in the years that they played together.

KP · January 17th, 2006, 04:04 PM

Raider, I agree with you to a point. But, Kobe's been in the league now for what, eight years? He was on a team that won three championships so it's not like he had to wait for a team like MJ did. Jordan didn't tear his team apart like Kobe...MJ did whatever he could to keep his core intact while trying to improve the fringe players. Kobe got rid of his best player...and as a Laker fan I'm sure you'll disagree that Kobe had anything to do with it...but when other players on the team comment on Kobe's selfishness again and again....hey, where's there's smoke there usually is fire.
By my untrained eye...I am not an NBA expert...it seems Kobe's ego got the best of him. Jordan had a huge ego no doubt about it...but he also recognized the importance of playing within a team. Kobe hasn't yet figured that out after all the years and success in the league.

Raider Assassin · January 17th, 2006, 09:47 PM

MJ unlike Kobe,didn't have to start over with an entirely different set of team mates after having already won championships. The Bulls played with basically the same core of players over and extended period of time. Had Kobe,Shaq,Fisher,Fox,Horry and the cast of reserves were still together as a team and Kobe were selfish,then I could buy into your analysis but that's not the case. A stars selfishness is developed out of a mistrust in ones team mates and I never once heard that label attributed to Kobe from any of the members of those Laker championship teams,it has always come from outside players who've come to play with the Lakers such as Chuckie Adkins who couldn't be trusted and counted on to do anything other than hit an occassional jump shot and who is now on the verge of being dumped by the Wizards. Any rumblings of Kobe being selfish isn't and hasn't been an issue with his current Laker team mates.Kobes only real problem with any Laker team mate is/was the issue with Shaq and that had to do with who was the actual star/go to player or whose team it was and had nothing to do with selfishness.

One other thing that should be understood is that whether or not Kobe had anything to do with Buss/Kupchek getting rid of Shaq,it's not the first nor will it be the last time that management of a particular team sides with whom they consider to be the real star of the team. You can bet your bottom dollar that MJ was instramental in a lot of what went on with the Bulls as it related to players and coaches and if you don't believe that,then ask Doug Collins who was replace by Phil.Same thing goes for Bird in Boston. At only 20/21 years old,Magic went to Buss and Laker management and had coach McKinney fired because he didn't want to play for him and that's how Pat Riley became the coach. So even if Kobe voiced his opinion about not wanting to play with Shaq,it's no different than what other star players have done in the past and if that is indeed the truth,the final decision belonged to Dr. Buss and he chose to keep the player he felt was the better all around player and of course the younger of the two.

One last point of note is that Shaq and Kobe probably would've probably never won another championship together mainly because the days of two star teams with a cast complamentary players winning championships were over and teams now had to have five(5) ligitiment NBA players as starters and a strong bench to win championships,i.e.,Pistons and Spurs. Thus,as a Laker fan,I personal feel that Buss did the right thing and kept the right player because they need to try and build a team similair to what the Pistons and Spurs have built. If you look at Shaq today,he is nowhere near the player he was during the Laker championship years or after only a couple years removed from the Lakers,his game has deteriorated and no longer has the low post footwork he had while with the Lakers and all he has left is his power and strength and that's not enough to win championships in todays game.When you as Shaq lets a Greg Ostertag block two consecutive shots of yours,what does that tell you about the state of his game,a couple years ago,Ostertag wouldn't have even dreamed of blocking Shaq's shot,I rest my case.

One final note about selfishness,even on the playground courts in pickup games of three on three,five on five or whatever,the object was always to win the game because winners stayed up and when you found out that certain players on your team couldn't be counted on to contribute in game winning situations,you wouldn't give him the ball in those situations because he couldn't be trusted to deliver and whichever of the better players on your team had the hot hand,thats who you gave the ball to if you wanted to win and continue playing,it works the same way in the NBA and that's why the Lakers,Celtics,Pistons,76er's and Bulls and that's why those teams put the ball in the hands of players like Magic,Bird,Isiah,Dr.J and MJ.

January 10th, 2006, 07:49 AM	#1
Mike Join Date: 07-08-2002 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 10,791	kobe bryant - Comments and thoughts? I wanted to get some opinions on Kobe Bryant. He has had some great games this season, but is he really better off without Shaq there. I am not asking this as a team, but as a player. Is he really good, or just a normal player with some skill Rate him on a scale of 1-10

January 10th, 2006, 08:11 AM	#2
Rusty27 Join Date: 07-15-2004 Location: Knoxville,Tenn. Posts: 27,046	The guy can shoot.I give him a ten for shooting the ball I give him a 7 as a basketball player.

January 10th, 2006, 08:41 AM	#3
BtownBeers Join Date: 08-23-2004 Location: In Mrs. Jays Pants! Posts: 21,321	I agree with Rusty he can shoot and can lead his team but overal 6 or 7 in my mind as a basketball player. He is the only one with talent on that team so that makes sense he has these huge games.

January 10th, 2006, 06:02 PM	#4
jtg33 Join Date: 03-17-2004 Location: Colorado Posts: 4,487	As a shooter, he's a 10. He has a great shot and he can really play the game. As a team player, I'd only give him about a 5 or a 6. Overall, I'd put him at a 7.

January 10th, 2006, 06:16 PM	#5
Rusty27 Join Date: 07-15-2004 Location: Knoxville,Tenn. Posts: 27,046	We all agree so far Or is my gun compelling you to agree with me.

January 10th, 2006, 06:18 PM	#6
jtg33 Join Date: 03-17-2004 Location: Colorado Posts: 4,487	I don't know. It's so puny I can barely see it. For all I know, it's just a fancy cigarette lighter.

January 10th, 2006, 06:20 PM	#7
Rusty27 Join Date: 07-15-2004 Location: Knoxville,Tenn. Posts: 27,046	I don't even smoke! It could be a PEZ dispenser though.

January 10th, 2006, 10:25 PM	#8
KP Join Date: 07-08-2002 Posts: 1,988	Adrian Zmed to Fred Dryer....LOL! At least you took a step up on the masculine meter! What was the question in this thread again? Oh, Kobe.... Kobe is a great player, period. His problem is his head....all he wants to be is a scorer. He could be a great defender, passer, rebounder....all of that. I think I would agree with everyone here that he's a 10 shooter but a 7 player.

January 10th, 2006, 11:45 PM	#9
Shane Join Date: 06-08-2003 Location: Bend, Oregon Posts: 6,338	Great shooter, above average player. Above all, he is an OJ, and should be in prison.

January 11th, 2006, 11:40 AM	#11
KP Join Date: 07-08-2002 Posts: 1,988	I'm glad you have a sense of humor, Rusty! My comments are all in fun! I used to watch both of those shows when I was younger, but I've never seen The Shield.

January 17th, 2006, 12:57 PM	#12
Raider Assassin Join Date: 09-21-2002 Location: Long Beach,Ca. Posts: 932	Shane,dude they don't incarcerate men for having sex with town sluts and the only thing I blame Kobe for in that situation,is for not having better taste with whom he chose to commit adultry with. KP I know that you didn't pose this question for my sake,as you no doubt know what my answer is going to be,but I'll answer anyway. As a player with unmatched skills by anyone in the league except maybe Labron,I rate him a 10. As a team player I rate him as an 8 and the reason for that is that he hasn't fully obtained the trust in his team mates and if you watch the Lakers on a regular basis as I do,then you could truly understand why he hasn't or doesn't have complete trust in them. People tend to forget that MJ was the same way in his early years and felt that he had to do it all up until Phil talked to him about trusting his team mates and also when the Bulls started putting better players around him.The longer this current Laker team plays together,I think the more Kobe will learn to trust them and with them being the second youngest team in the league behind Atlanta,that trust will be developed in time and as long as the supporting cast shows not only Kobe,but Phil as well,that they can be counted on in clutch situations just as MJ's supporting cast showed in the years that they played together.

January 17th, 2006, 04:04 PM	#13
KP Join Date: 07-08-2002 Posts: 1,988	Raider, I agree with you to a point. But, Kobe's been in the league now for what, eight years? He was on a team that won three championships so it's not like he had to wait for a team like MJ did. Jordan didn't tear his team apart like Kobe...MJ did whatever he could to keep his core intact while trying to improve the fringe players. Kobe got rid of his best player...and as a Laker fan I'm sure you'll disagree that Kobe had anything to do with it...but when other players on the team comment on Kobe's selfishness again and again....hey, where's there's smoke there usually is fire. By my untrained eye...I am not an NBA expert...it seems Kobe's ego got the best of him. Jordan had a huge ego no doubt about it...but he also recognized the importance of playing within a team. Kobe hasn't yet figured that out after all the years and success in the league.

January 17th, 2006, 09:47 PM	#14
Raider Assassin Join Date: 09-21-2002 Location: Long Beach,Ca. Posts: 932	MJ unlike Kobe,didn't have to start over with an entirely different set of team mates after having already won championships. The Bulls played with basically the same core of players over and extended period of time. Had Kobe,Shaq,Fisher,Fox,Horry and the cast of reserves were still together as a team and Kobe were selfish,then I could buy into your analysis but that's not the case. A stars selfishness is developed out of a mistrust in ones team mates and I never once heard that label attributed to Kobe from any of the members of those Laker championship teams,it has always come from outside players who've come to play with the Lakers such as Chuckie Adkins who couldn't be trusted and counted on to do anything other than hit an occassional jump shot and who is now on the verge of being dumped by the Wizards. Any rumblings of Kobe being selfish isn't and hasn't been an issue with his current Laker team mates.Kobes only real problem with any Laker team mate is/was the issue with Shaq and that had to do with who was the actual star/go to player or whose team it was and had nothing to do with selfishness. One other thing that should be understood is that whether or not Kobe had anything to do with Buss/Kupchek getting rid of Shaq,it's not the first nor will it be the last time that management of a particular team sides with whom they consider to be the real star of the team. You can bet your bottom dollar that MJ was instramental in a lot of what went on with the Bulls as it related to players and coaches and if you don't believe that,then ask Doug Collins who was replace by Phil.Same thing goes for Bird in Boston. At only 20/21 years old,Magic went to Buss and Laker management and had coach McKinney fired because he didn't want to play for him and that's how Pat Riley became the coach. So even if Kobe voiced his opinion about not wanting to play with Shaq,it's no different than what other star players have done in the past and if that is indeed the truth,the final decision belonged to Dr. Buss and he chose to keep the player he felt was the better all around player and of course the younger of the two. One last point of note is that Shaq and Kobe probably would've probably never won another championship together mainly because the days of two star teams with a cast complamentary players winning championships were over and teams now had to have five(5) ligitiment NBA players as starters and a strong bench to win championships,i.e.,Pistons and Spurs. Thus,as a Laker fan,I personal feel that Buss did the right thing and kept the right player because they need to try and build a team similair to what the Pistons and Spurs have built. If you look at Shaq today,he is nowhere near the player he was during the Laker championship years or after only a couple years removed from the Lakers,his game has deteriorated and no longer has the low post footwork he had while with the Lakers and all he has left is his power and strength and that's not enough to win championships in todays game.When you as Shaq lets a Greg Ostertag block two consecutive shots of yours,what does that tell you about the state of his game,a couple years ago,Ostertag wouldn't have even dreamed of blocking Shaq's shot,I rest my case. One final note about selfishness,even on the playground courts in pickup games of three on three,five on five or whatever,the object was always to win the game because winners stayed up and when you found out that certain players on your team couldn't be counted on to contribute in game winning situations,you wouldn't give him the ball in those situations because he couldn't be trusted to deliver and whichever of the better players on your team had the hot hand,thats who you gave the ball to if you wanted to win and continue playing,it works the same way in the NBA and that's why the Lakers,Celtics,Pistons,76er's and Bulls and that's why those teams put the ball in the hands of players like Magic,Bird,Isiah,Dr.J and MJ.