McGwire Deserves Cooperstown - Cooperstown Deserves McGwire

Mike · January 10th, 2007, 08:21 AM

Here's news: Mark McGwire was not voted into the baseball hall of fame. Everyone knows that players are voted in by the Baseball Writers Association of America. I am sure everyone has watched ESPN or some local coverage about how McGwire was shunned for his possible, alleged steroid use.

Steve...
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BaldBil · January 10th, 2007, 09:24 AM

I've got to disagree here as I think you already know . This guy had a chance to come clean one way or the other and did not. If he in fact never did anything he wasn't supposed to have been doing then he should have come and said so both prior to the congressional dog & pony show and then again when asked by by the panel. He did not. You can paint that fact when any brush you want it does not change the fact that(on legal advice) said "I am not here to speak of the past".

I also remember him saying how he was going to use his foundation to teach young athletes of the dangers of steroid use. Check out the website and see how far that effort has gone.

His numbers are what they are. The 583 HR's based on past entry criteria(unofficial) would have gotten him in in years past despite having a year where he batted .201.

Until this whole steroid thing is sorted out he will have to wait. This despite the fact that I am sure there are already steroid abusers in the HOF. The timing sucks for him but until he grows his balls back and come out to defend himself foget about it.

ssigman · January 10th, 2007, 09:43 AM

remember when he played things like andro weren't illegal in baseball....you can't keep him out cause he used things like that...now did he use steroids...we don't know for sure...most likely he did, but just pleading the 5th doesn't make him 100% guilty...23% was a joke...the guy pretty much saved baseball back in the day and dominated for a period of time sufficient enough by hof standards

BaldBil · January 10th, 2007, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssigman

remember when he played things like andro weren't illegal in baseball....you can't keep him out cause he used things like that...now did he use steroids...we don't know for sure...most likely he did, but just pleading the 5th doesn't make him 100% guilty...23% was a joke...the guy pretty much saved baseball back in the day and dominated for a period of time sufficient enough by hof standards

Can't and won't argue about the andro and baseballs unwillingness to police itself back in the 90's.This is a timing issue for sure and he is the unfortunate recepient of the backlash.

He has chosen to walk away from the whole thing and I have some respect for that. By walking away however he does nothing to help his situation.

ssigman · January 10th, 2007, 11:03 AM

true...but would you want to put yourself in the middle of all this if you didn't have to...i think most people would stay out of it...back when they found the andro, he admitted to it...no reason not to..it was legal...once they made it illegal, its not like people can look back and say he cheated cause of that...its definitely timing but where does it end...does noone get elected from that time period???

Rusty27 · January 10th, 2007, 11:14 AM

Exactly! I was thinking about that earlier.What should really happen is no one gets in to the Hall who played in that time period till things are sorted out.
Otherwise what do you have? "Vote that guy in cause he's skinny but not that guy in cause is arms are too big,and this other guy has big thighs.Vote this guy in cause his numbers are consistant but not this guy cause he had two bad years than 6 good years right after that.Must be roids.

BtownJay · January 10th, 2007, 11:32 AM

How do we know Cal Ripken and Tony Gwynn weren't on roids? Why are they different that McGwire? Because Mark's arms are bigger and he hit 2 million home runs? People can use steroids for different reasons...

Maybe Cal used them to heal quicker to be able to play that many straight games. Maybe Tony used them to make his reaction time quicker and his bat speed faster? Like someone said, when and where does it end?

Lastly, why is Mark different than everyone else? Why must he prove his innocence? To me, all these voters not voting him in are scum. They feel that they just KNOW he did something wrong. They are above needing tests and proof... they are all knowing.

BaldBil · January 10th, 2007, 11:37 AM

This will eventually run its course, but probably not until Bonds comes up for induction.

As for Mac I belive he would be doing himself and baseball a huge service by coming out and discussing this.

I personally believe that my favorite player from back in the day may have been one of the "pioneers" of steroids in baseball. His name has never come up an may never come up but he fits the criteria.

The only real solution is to revamp the way the voting is conducted.

ssigman · January 10th, 2007, 11:46 AM

how bout we go based on the criteria to elect hof'ers instead of personal opinion on whether or not they did roids

outstanding numbers and a period of domination in an era should be used and mcgwire did both...but its not used cause if it was jack morris would be in the hof and he's not

Mike · January 10th, 2007, 11:51 AM

The fact of the matter is this

McGwire has done nothing wrong! These writers who voted against him are

Quote:

Originally Posted by Btownjay

scum

. They should account only for what he did on the field. If he would have tested positive or admitted to taking steriods then that is a different story in its own. Again keeping his mouth shut is his choice, it is not a conviction of steriod use, but that is what the writers are saying

Every player in baseball would vote him in a second, you know that and so do I

He should not be held accountable for something he has not done or is not proven, plain and fucking simple!

He has a right to privacy, oh wait, this is the new America, the patriot act has taken this freedom away, he owes us an answer dammit < Not!

BtownBeers · January 10th, 2007, 12:01 PM

These on-field numbers could be skewd because of illegal drugs, I think thats where most voters have their issue. They want to put in the "pure" players and their acheivements.

The fact that nothing is proven and he is guilty until otherwise found innocent is what irks me, however why he didn't just come out in the hearings and say this is beyond me, if he is in fact innocent.

Mike, your privacy issue can't be used here, any sportstar or famous person is subject to a life that includes little to no privacy, its just the way it is.

I think my biggest issue is the differences in sports and how they deal with players and steroids. Mike and Mike talked a little about this subject this morning and if you insert Shawne Merriman here and this is football all things considered he is going to the hall.

Mike · January 10th, 2007, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BtownBeers

The fact that nothing is proven and he is guilty until otherwise found innocent is what irks me, however why he didn't just come out in the hearings and say this is beyond me, if he is in fact innocent.

Mike, your privacy issue can't be used here, any sportstar or famous person is subject to a life that includes little to no privacy, its just the way it is.

Beers that is his decision to make! He did nothing wrong. He played the game, his 586 HR's, and was an icon. He came forward about his andro use. If he wants to shut his mouth about the hearings or what he may or may not have done, that is his right, a right to privacy. I do not care if he is a sports star or not

BtownBeers · January 10th, 2007, 12:14 PM

Oh it certainly is his right, but if he can clear his name and show he is innocent, this will all go away and he will be in the hall, why hasn't he? Stubborn? Feels its private? Guilty?

January 10th, 2007, 08:21 AM	#1
Mike Join Date: 07-08-2002 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 10,826	McGwire Deserves Cooperstown - Cooperstown Deserves McGwire Here's news: Mark McGwire was not voted into the baseball hall of fame. Everyone knows that players are voted in by the Baseball Writers Association of America. I am sure everyone has watched ESPN or some local coverage about how McGwire was shunned for his possible, alleged steroid use. Steve... Full Article

January 10th, 2007, 09:24 AM	#2
BaldBil Join Date: 06-15-2006 Location: Salem, MA Posts: 5,462	I've got to disagree here as I think you already know . This guy had a chance to come clean one way or the other and did not. If he in fact never did anything he wasn't supposed to have been doing then he should have come and said so both prior to the congressional dog & pony show and then again when asked by by the panel. He did not. You can paint that fact when any brush you want it does not change the fact that(on legal advice) said "I am not here to speak of the past". I also remember him saying how he was going to use his foundation to teach young athletes of the dangers of steroid use. Check out the website and see how far that effort has gone. His numbers are what they are. The 583 HR's based on past entry criteria(unofficial) would have gotten him in in years past despite having a year where he batted .201. Until this whole steroid thing is sorted out he will have to wait. This despite the fact that I am sure there are already steroid abusers in the HOF. The timing sucks for him but until he grows his balls back and come out to defend himself foget about it. Last edited by BaldBil; January 10th, 2007 at 09:28 AM. Reason: made the wrong point. What a maroon!

January 10th, 2007, 09:43 AM	#3
ssigman Join Date: 03-15-2004 Posts: 28,059	remember when he played things like andro weren't illegal in baseball....you can't keep him out cause he used things like that...now did he use steroids...we don't know for sure...most likely he did, but just pleading the 5th doesn't make him 100% guilty...23% was a joke...the guy pretty much saved baseball back in the day and dominated for a period of time sufficient enough by hof standards

January 10th, 2007, 11:03 AM	#5
ssigman Join Date: 03-15-2004 Posts: 28,059	true...but would you want to put yourself in the middle of all this if you didn't have to...i think most people would stay out of it...back when they found the andro, he admitted to it...no reason not to..it was legal...once they made it illegal, its not like people can look back and say he cheated cause of that...its definitely timing but where does it end...does noone get elected from that time period???

January 10th, 2007, 11:14 AM	#6
Rusty27 Join Date: 07-15-2004 Location: Knoxville,Tenn. Posts: 29,313	Exactly! I was thinking about that earlier.What should really happen is no one gets in to the Hall who played in that time period till things are sorted out. Otherwise what do you have? "Vote that guy in cause he's skinny but not that guy in cause is arms are too big,and this other guy has big thighs.Vote this guy in cause his numbers are consistant but not this guy cause he had two bad years than 6 good years right after that.Must be roids.

January 10th, 2007, 11:32 AM	#7
BtownJay Join Date: 07-14-2004 Location: Lehigh Valley, PA Posts: 28,882	How do we know Cal Ripken and Tony Gwynn weren't on roids? Why are they different that McGwire? Because Mark's arms are bigger and he hit 2 million home runs? People can use steroids for different reasons... Maybe Cal used them to heal quicker to be able to play that many straight games. Maybe Tony used them to make his reaction time quicker and his bat speed faster? Like someone said, when and where does it end? Lastly, why is Mark different than everyone else? Why must he prove his innocence? To me, all these voters not voting him in are scum. They feel that they just KNOW he did something wrong. They are above needing tests and proof... they are all knowing.

January 10th, 2007, 11:37 AM	#8
BaldBil Join Date: 06-15-2006 Location: Salem, MA Posts: 5,462	This will eventually run its course, but probably not until Bonds comes up for induction. As for Mac I belive he would be doing himself and baseball a huge service by coming out and discussing this. I personally believe that my favorite player from back in the day may have been one of the "pioneers" of steroids in baseball. His name has never come up an may never come up but he fits the criteria. The only real solution is to revamp the way the voting is conducted.

January 10th, 2007, 11:46 AM	#9
ssigman Join Date: 03-15-2004 Posts: 28,059	how bout we go based on the criteria to elect hof'ers instead of personal opinion on whether or not they did roids outstanding numbers and a period of domination in an era should be used and mcgwire did both...but its not used cause if it was jack morris would be in the hof and he's not

January 10th, 2007, 12:01 PM	#11
BtownBeers Join Date: 08-23-2004 Location: In Mrs. Jays Pants! Posts: 22,216	These on-field numbers could be skewd because of illegal drugs, I think thats where most voters have their issue. They want to put in the "pure" players and their acheivements. The fact that nothing is proven and he is guilty until otherwise found innocent is what irks me, however why he didn't just come out in the hearings and say this is beyond me, if he is in fact innocent. Mike, your privacy issue can't be used here, any sportstar or famous person is subject to a life that includes little to no privacy, its just the way it is. I think my biggest issue is the differences in sports and how they deal with players and steroids. Mike and Mike talked a little about this subject this morning and if you insert Shawne Merriman here and this is football all things considered he is going to the hall.

January 10th, 2007, 12:14 PM	#13
BtownBeers Join Date: 08-23-2004 Location: In Mrs. Jays Pants! Posts: 22,216	Oh it certainly is his right, but if he can clear his name and show he is innocent, this will all go away and he will be in the hall, why hasn't he? Stubborn? Feels its private? Guilty?