Vick Indictment Discussion

Mike · July 18th, 2007, 08:04 AM

So by now, since ESPN has killed the story, everyone knows that Vick is in a world of trouble after being indicted by a federal grand jury yesterday. Some of the items that come to my mind are:

What will the Falcons do
What will Roger Goodell do - he has been pretty harsh so far to some of the players for their off the field problems, Pacman Jones and others
Should Vick be allowed to play this season

These and other items will come up

Again this is an indictment, Vick is not guilty of anything yet.

I am sure that Goodell will do something and I am sure he will be getting pressured from all kinds of activists groups and politilcal groups but I am sure that it will take a little while for him to get his ducks in a row prior to passing down an NFL sentence

I am sure sometime today Michael Vick will turn himself in, as he should. Who knows maybe his lawyers will get this all thrown out

Now let's say that the Falcons release Vick because of this, if you were an owner, would you pick Vick up?

Anyway this is going to get interesting!!

BtownJay · July 18th, 2007, 08:35 AM

They are saying the trial probably wouldn't even be able to start til after this season. So he should 10000000000% be allowed to play this season. We can not have another Duke situation where people get screwed before we know if they actually did anything wrong.

But, Vick is SCREWED here. They have 4 witnesses and the 3 known men who involved at the house. How quickly do you think these guys will turn on Vick to get reduced sentences? They are going to roll faster than Vick rolls joints.

EliSmoke · July 18th, 2007, 08:39 AM

If the Falcons were to cut the so called QB, and I were an owner of America's Team aka Dallas Cowboys, I would tell Vick to go pound sand. He doesn't even deserve a spot on my roster as the 4th backup qb.

Mike · July 18th, 2007, 08:49 AM

What I would like to know is how this site > http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...7072vick1.html > got their hands on a copy of the 19 page indictment

Mike · July 18th, 2007, 08:51 AM

Well that is always not the case jay, Goodell has already proven that he will not tolerate any sort of trouble cases and could do anything he deems necessary

BtownJay · July 18th, 2007, 08:51 AM

The Smoking Gun always gets their hands on that kind of stuff. They have "people" all over law enforcement with the ability to get copies of these things.

How pissed are the Falcons that they traded Schwab away now?

whourdaddy · July 18th, 2007, 08:52 AM

That site also own Court TV, they have good sources.

And I think Vick is going down. After the Duke incident there is no way they would go after a high profile athlete without proof. Plus is them "testing" dogs was true I hope he gets shanked in jail.

BtownJay · July 18th, 2007, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

Well that is always not the case jay, Goodell has already proven that he will not tolerate any sort of trouble cases and could do anything he deems necessary

I know what he COULD do... i'm saying he SHOULDN'T. If he does suspend Vick, i will suddenly become Vicks biggest supporter, and i really don't want that to happen. I hate how people/leagues think they are better than our judicial system... so good that they are mind readers and know a persons guilt or innocence without a trial.

Mike · July 18th, 2007, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BtownJay

I know what he COULD do... i'm saying he SHOULDN'T. If he does suspend Vick, i will suddenly become Vicks biggest supporter, and i really don't want that to happen. I hate how people/leagues think they are better than our judicial system... so good that they are mind readers and know a persons guilt or innocence without a trial.

So what about the others like Pacman Jones, did he deserve to be suspended in your opinion

BaldBil · July 18th, 2007, 09:07 AM

As someone who has stood on the wrong side of an indictment I always stand with the "innocent until proven guilty" concept that our American justice system is predicated on.

The 3 or 4 witnesses mean nothing until their testimony has been presented in open court and challenged by the defense. Who are these guys? Are they legitimate in a manner that means their only interest is seeing justice done; or are they willing to throw their own mothers under the bus in an effort to save their own sorry asses?

If Vick was(is) in fact stupid enough to get involved in a direct way with this operation then he will get his. If he was indirectly involved and insulated himself enough from the day to day operation then it will up to the government prosecuters to unravel it. That could be tough.

I will continue to reserve judgement on his guilt. if I were a GM, maybe I would sign him as a back-up. Always good to have another running/passing option for goal-line and 3rd or 4th and 1 situations.

whourdaddy · July 18th, 2007, 09:12 AM

Well Jay what is he cops a plea to avoid trial? What do you do as a GM? I am involved in running a business and if one of our key employees might be going to jail or something we have to plan for that to avoid letting down client.

I don't really know if he is guilty or not. I do lean towards with him being so high profile they wouldn't go this far without solid proof. I have been wrong before though and will be wrong again.

BtownJay · July 18th, 2007, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

So what about the others like Pacman Jones, did he deserve to be suspended in your opinion

I don't know his full story to really answer that. Has he pled or been found guilty of anything?

Agreed mostly with Bil... while i think he's guilty, he has not been convicted of anything yet. And people's personal opinions should not affect anothers life.

BtownBeers · July 18th, 2007, 09:39 AM

I have to say I am REALLY glad to see this happen...personally I think he is guilty as shit...how far or how much he was involved is hard to say and could be hard to prove (I hope its really easy). I don't like Vick at all and think he is a real POS based on his character over the years this just helps solidify that.

That said I don't think the NFL should do anything publically nor should the Falcons. Now I say publically because I think the NFL and the team should have closed doors discussions with Vick and try to work out a plan for him to take time off and deal with this and wait for the outcome in the courts.

Now that is probably near impossible and won't happen so all those involved will have to seriously address the situation and tread lightly.

For the NFL its hard to not want to take action but because he has only been indicted what can you really do leagally.

The Falcons have to protect themselves in this. Again very tough spot for them. Simply having him on the team could be very rough in terms of fan support, ticket sales, team chemistry, distractions, etc, etc.

For Vick, he has to figure out if he can even concentrate on Football while this plays out. It is possible the trial could go on during the season. If he truely is not guilty, he should come out publically and state that and take himself off the field and team for some time to clear his name as a good faith gesture to all parties involved.

Obviously this is just my humble opinion...but all of my points seem to point at my original idea that he should agree to take time off to deal with this and clear his name (if he's not guilty) and rot in hell/prison for the rest of his days and hopefully get fucked up in jail if all of the allegations are proven true.

BaldBil · July 18th, 2007, 09:51 AM

Well said.

July 18th, 2007, 08:04 AM	#1
Mike Join Date: 07-08-2002 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 10,795	Vick Indictment Discussion So by now, since ESPN has killed the story, everyone knows that Vick is in a world of trouble after being indicted by a federal grand jury yesterday. Some of the items that come to my mind are: What will the Falcons do What will Roger Goodell do - he has been pretty harsh so far to some of the players for their off the field problems, Pacman Jones and others Should Vick be allowed to play this season These and other items will come up Again this is an indictment, Vick is not guilty of anything yet. I am sure that Goodell will do something and I am sure he will be getting pressured from all kinds of activists groups and politilcal groups but I am sure that it will take a little while for him to get his ducks in a row prior to passing down an NFL sentence I am sure sometime today Michael Vick will turn himself in, as he should. Who knows maybe his lawyers will get this all thrown out Now let's say that the Falcons release Vick because of this, if you were an owner, would you pick Vick up? Anyway this is going to get interesting!!

July 18th, 2007, 08:35 AM	#2
BtownJay Join Date: 07-14-2004 Location: Lehigh Valley, PA Posts: 28,016	They are saying the trial probably wouldn't even be able to start til after this season. So he should 10000000000% be allowed to play this season. We can not have another Duke situation where people get screwed before we know if they actually did anything wrong. But, Vick is SCREWED here. They have 4 witnesses and the 3 known men who involved at the house. How quickly do you think these guys will turn on Vick to get reduced sentences? They are going to roll faster than Vick rolls joints.

July 18th, 2007, 08:39 AM	#3
EliSmoke Join Date: 09-30-2004 Location: Lehigh Valley Posts: 789	If the Falcons were to cut the so called QB, and I were an owner of America's Team aka Dallas Cowboys, I would tell Vick to go pound sand. He doesn't even deserve a spot on my roster as the 4th backup qb.

July 18th, 2007, 08:49 AM	#4
Mike Join Date: 07-08-2002 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 10,795	What I would like to know is how this site > http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...7072vick1.html > got their hands on a copy of the 19 page indictment

July 18th, 2007, 08:51 AM	#5
Mike Join Date: 07-08-2002 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 10,795	Well that is always not the case jay, Goodell has already proven that he will not tolerate any sort of trouble cases and could do anything he deems necessary

July 18th, 2007, 08:52 AM	#7
whourdaddy Join Date: 12-08-2005 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 3,823	That site also own Court TV, they have good sources. And I think Vick is going down. After the Duke incident there is no way they would go after a high profile athlete without proof. Plus is them "testing" dogs was true I hope he gets shanked in jail.

July 18th, 2007, 09:07 AM	#10
BaldBil Join Date: 06-15-2006 Location: Salem, MA Posts: 5,211	As someone who has stood on the wrong side of an indictment I always stand with the "innocent until proven guilty" concept that our American justice system is predicated on. The 3 or 4 witnesses mean nothing until their testimony has been presented in open court and challenged by the defense. Who are these guys? Are they legitimate in a manner that means their only interest is seeing justice done; or are they willing to throw their own mothers under the bus in an effort to save their own sorry asses? If Vick was(is) in fact stupid enough to get involved in a direct way with this operation then he will get his. If he was indirectly involved and insulated himself enough from the day to day operation then it will up to the government prosecuters to unravel it. That could be tough. I will continue to reserve judgement on his guilt. if I were a GM, maybe I would sign him as a back-up. Always good to have another running/passing option for goal-line and 3rd or 4th and 1 situations.

July 18th, 2007, 09:12 AM	#11
whourdaddy Join Date: 12-08-2005 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 3,823	Well Jay what is he cops a plea to avoid trial? What do you do as a GM? I am involved in running a business and if one of our key employees might be going to jail or something we have to plan for that to avoid letting down client. I don't really know if he is guilty or not. I do lean towards with him being so high profile they wouldn't go this far without solid proof. I have been wrong before though and will be wrong again.

July 18th, 2007, 09:39 AM	#13
BtownBeers Join Date: 08-23-2004 Location: In Mrs. Jays Pants! Posts: 21,564	I have to say I am REALLY glad to see this happen...personally I think he is guilty as shit...how far or how much he was involved is hard to say and could be hard to prove (I hope its really easy). I don't like Vick at all and think he is a real POS based on his character over the years this just helps solidify that. That said I don't think the NFL should do anything publically nor should the Falcons. Now I say publically because I think the NFL and the team should have closed doors discussions with Vick and try to work out a plan for him to take time off and deal with this and wait for the outcome in the courts. Now that is probably near impossible and won't happen so all those involved will have to seriously address the situation and tread lightly. For the NFL its hard to not want to take action but because he has only been indicted what can you really do leagally. The Falcons have to protect themselves in this. Again very tough spot for them. Simply having him on the team could be very rough in terms of fan support, ticket sales, team chemistry, distractions, etc, etc. For Vick, he has to figure out if he can even concentrate on Football while this plays out. It is possible the trial could go on during the season. If he truely is not guilty, he should come out publically and state that and take himself off the field and team for some time to clear his name as a good faith gesture to all parties involved. Obviously this is just my humble opinion...but all of my points seem to point at my original idea that he should agree to take time off to deal with this and clear his name (if he's not guilty) and rot in hell/prison for the rest of his days and hopefully get fucked up in jail if all of the allegations are proven true.

July 18th, 2007, 09:51 AM	#14
BaldBil Join Date: 06-15-2006 Location: Salem, MA Posts: 5,211	Well said.